UK: Oxford Throwdown III

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 6/05/2011 1:47pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

judoka_uk, if you want you can settle this bet with some kind of padded MMA glove or an ungloved pushing hands round without striking. I have no interest in trying to game this by completely taking away your ability to grip with your fingers. Still no gi though (for the bet, anyway), tah.

tbh I think the lack of gi makes a bigger difference than what you can do with your fingers, but it's up to you.

Last time I sparred with MMA gloves on I gave the other guy a black eye

{This is not done to me being awesome, rather a combination of retard strength and spaz punching}

and I don't really want to hurt you, I don't actually have any genuine animosity or anything, or give you something that's going to be awkward to explain at work.

So maybe push hands would be better out of those two. What are the push hands rules?

**Cullion** · Posted On: 6/05/2011 2:07pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Last time I sparred with MMA gloves on I gave the other guy a black eye and I don't really want to hurt you, I don't actually have any genuine animosity or anything, or give you something that's going to be awkward to explain at work.

Things like that are a risk, but people at work know I do martial arts so a black eye wouldn't be a problem. 10oz boxing gloves are the lightest gloves I've ever sparred with, but it's possible to get MMA gloves with more than the standard 4oz of padding. The most serious injury I expect from a punch in the face is a broken nose. Worse (i.e. more permanently debilitating) things can happen with throws and locks, so it's up to you.

{p.s. the venue I'm trying to get is really near the main hospital in Oxford}

So maybe push hands would be better out of those two. What are the push hands rules?

Like this but not wearing shuaijiao jackets
http://www.bccma.com/docs/shuai_jiao_rules.pdf

(only the first couple of minutes are relevant. ignore the later matches where they restart whenever one of them moves his feet).

We don't have to do the 'walking around in a circle with our hands touching thing'. We never do it in class.

As before, you'll win the bet if I go down and you remain standing, even if I managed to score more points in 2 minutes under the shuaijiao rules. One clean takedown is all you need. I can't 'beat' you just by driving you out of the area a lot, other than to waste a little time as we restart in the middle.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 6/05/2011 2:16pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

Things like that are a risk, but people at work know I do martial arts so a black eye wouldn't be a problem. 10oz boxing gloves are the lightest gloves I've ever sparred with, but it's possible to get MMA gloves with more than the standard 4oz of padding. The must serious injury I expect from a punch in the face is a broken nose. Worse (i.e. more permanently debilitating) things can happen with throws and locks, so it's up to you.

Yeh I guess. I broke my right shoulder doing Judo, which is much more debilitating than a black eye.

Originally Posted by Cullion

Like this but not wearing shuaijiao jackets
http://www.bccma.com/docs/shuai_jiao_rules.pdf

(only the first couple of minutes are relevant. ignore the later matches where they restart whenever one of them moves his feet).

We don't have to do the 'walking around in a circle with our hands touching thing'. We never do it in class.

As before, you'll win the bet if I go down and you remain standing, even if I managed to score more points in 2 minutes under the shuaijiao rules. One clean takedown is all you need. I can't 'beat' you just by driving you out of the area a lot, other than to waste a little time as we restart in the middle.

That looks fine, what does this mean?

"Da Shuai (open hand techniques to throw/sweep/take down)"

**Cullion** · Posted On: 6/05/2011 2:22pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Yeh I guess. I broke my right shoulder doing Judo, which is much more debilitating than a black eye.

That looks fine, what does this mean?

"Da Shuai (open hand techniques to throw/sweep/take down)"

It's okay to shove me or push me with an open palm to try and get me out of the ring (only any use to you if you feel like restarting in the middle for some reason) or take me down (e.g.. putting your leg behind mine and shoving in the chest so I fall over it).

They're drawing a distinction between doing that and palm striking each other in the face with an intent to knock out or break noses etc.. (which we definitely won't do).

You are also allowed to do standing locks to force me to the ground. I don't know if you do much of that, I was only taught locks on the ground in childhood Judo.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 6/05/2011 2:26pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

It's okay to shove me or push me with an open palm to try and get me out of the ring or take me down.

They're drawing a distinction between doing that and palm striking each other in the face with an intent to knock out or break noses etc.. (which we definitely won't do).

Ahh ok, that's not a problem.

Those rules look fine to me. I'm happy to spar under those.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 6/05/2011 5:39pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

You are also allowed to do standing locks to force me to the ground. I don't know if you do much of that, I was only taught locks on the ground in childhood Judo.

Sorry, missed this last time round. Yeh, you can do them in adult Judo. However, because they are relatively easy to counter, by letting go and because if applied quickly on an inexperienced opponent they can cause considerable damage they are rarely practiced or used.

So I wont be trying to standing armlock you because its risky and I don't want to risk hurting you and because its not really a big part of my Judo.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 6/05/2011 5:47pm

We use standing locks in my club when we can get them. If I find one I won't try and put it on you explosively because I'm not trying to injure you, but I will put one on if it's there (and then use it to take up as much of your 2 minutes as possible without injuring you). I expect you to treat me the same.

If you caught me in a standing lock and then forced me to the floor (e.g. a knee or my other hand touching), this would win the bet for you as much as a clean throw.

I'm used to this being done to me so don't worry about hurting me too much, just don't use explosive power against a joint close to its locking point and it will be fine.

They aren't that common, I see stuff like this put on successfully in wrestling/pushing hands maybe once in class on average, maybe less

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 6/05/2011 5:59pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

We use standing locks in my club when we can get them. If I find one I won't try and put it on you explosively because I'm not trying to injure you, but I will put one on if it's there (and then use it to take up as much of your 2 minutes as possible without injuring you). I expect you to treat me the same.

If you caught me in a standing lock and then forced me to the floor (e.g. a knee or my other hand touching), this would win the bet for you as much as a clean throw.

I'm used to this being done to me so don't worry about hurting me too much, just don't use explosive power against a joint close to its locking point and it will be fine.

They aren't that common, I see stuff like this put on successfully in wrestling maybe once in class on average, maybe less

Yeah, sorry didn't mean to come across as patronising. Just wanted to convey that I'm not really interested in the whole 'I iz gonna snap ur arm off fa66ot' angle.

If your chuck me with a standing armlock then fair enough, I'll be impressed.

They're a bit easier in no gi because of the close gripping situation then they are in Judo, because you have distance with control the gi.

Anyway seeing as we're both comfortable and cool with them I think any further discussion is just disappearing down a rabbit hole, especially seeing as we already agree on all the main points.

**PDA** · Posted On: 6/08/2011 4:52am

Is there a date for this yet?

**slideyfoot** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 6:58pm

Cool - only just noticed this, due to somebody in another thread mentioning seeing Cullion in August. Enjoyed the previous one, so I'll try to make it down again (though as I'm even more skint than usual at the moment, not making any promises).

It would be fitting, as last time I was slightly nervous about wearing a recently received blue belt. This time I can be slightly nervous about a recently received purple belt.