228787 Bullies, 5883 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 18 of 18
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,588

    Posted On:
    6/03/2011 5:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordschlag View Post
    Ah! Strike of the cow! That explains some of the interesting google images that came up when I typed it in. Thanks for that. As something of a curious aside, I was using the google-fu and came across a kick of this manner being used in one of the old cross-style matches of Savate versus English Boxing:


    I forget how many rounds were fought; any how, we were all convulsed with laughter till the last round, in the middle of which Alphonse threw himself back on his hands and shot out with his left foot, the sole of which was planted with terrific force full into Tom’s face.
    http://www.bartitsu.org/index.php/20...te-circa-1869/

    Very curious application.
    There was a kick like that in the kung fu I learned, called a tiger tail kick. I played around with using it in sparring. The way I found best was to do it like a stepping through side kick, where you step behind your front leg before kicking (like Bruce Lee was always doing), only on the step that angles the hip to kick, you also angle your body so you can put your hand (s) down. I do it once in a blue moon these days; its a novelty and I don't really do it or train it often. But anyway, some thoughts:

    -a side kick keeps your head about as far away from your opponent's fist as geometrically possible, the hand on the ground puts it even further away

    -when you step through, crouch, and turn the hips, it looks an awful lot like you're gonna do a spinning back kick. Therefore, I would only do this if I had previously done a few spinning back kicks, so they would see those things and figure that's what I was doing. It ends up hitting with the other leg with a half beat difference in timing.

    -it can be a rather disruptive kick for your opponent, because its hitting from a lower position upward

    -while your hands are down there, you can pick up two handfuls of sand to throw in their face! When I did this with MMA gloves in the park, I noticed once that I had incidentally gripped some grass strands into my hands. Later on, I grabbed more on purpose during such a kick and kept it concealed in my closed fists, unleashing it at an unexpected moment with a silly Dale Gribble noise. Since it was just grass, we laughed. But if you ever hear about someone grabbing a secret handful of Tactical Sand (tm) while doing a three point kick, they got that from me (if it worked).

    -only try these if you're some sort of foppish, galavanting dandy, such as myself.
  2. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sanctuary of Pallas Athena (Belgium)
    Posts
    2,656

    Posted On:
    6/04/2011 6:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordschlag View Post
    Ah I see. What are your general impressions on those several kicks in Savate Defense that you drill? I’m not terribly initiated in Savate aside from the historical material (for better fencing) I find, so I’d like to see what a true Savateur would say about the Savate Defense material.
    I wouldn't call myself a true Savateur, my instructor is doing it longer then that I was born (I'm 35).



    A portion of the chausson kicks start from the ground from the position that you see in the above video.
    For example:
    - the foot of the leg that's on the ground locks behind the achilles of the opponent (you can see the "roundhouse" from the knee in the clip when he's moving his position to face the opponent)
    - the leg that's "hovering" will perform a side kick just beneath the plexus (at midfiff height) whilest at the same time the defender will push himself off the ground using his both hands to gain more distance to his side kick.

    Other use of chausson kicks are to gain more height with the kicking leg in a spinning reverse roundhouse kick or a back kick if you are wearing trousers that prevent you from getting to head level, for example if you are wearing jeans trousers.
    In La Boxe Française-Savate the Integrales (unitards) are made of lycra so it doesn't hinder your kicking.

    And the third use is in getting a leg free that is holden by an opponent, like you see in the clips that you have posted, by people who aren't sure that they would succeed in one attempt and on training to minimize accidents because you can't kick your trainingspartner full force in the face in the hopes that they will let go of your foot.
    This type of chausson kick gets more and more replaced by the "Karate/Taekwondo" kick to the face with the free leg without putting the hands on the ground, the primairly reason for this is that a lot of Taekwondoka make the transistion to Savate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  3. Epeeist is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    314

    Posted On:
    6/04/2011 9:57pm


     Style: Kyokushin/Capoeira

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The folklore and folk history of a certain other martial art claims that some of its customs originated among sailors and fishermen:



    Many capoeira songs and traditions revolve around being a sailor, sailing, fishing, and being on the sea in general. Maybe sailors from two sides of the world thought alike on this front and developed a similar kick.
  4. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sanctuary of Pallas Athena (Belgium)
    Posts
    2,656

    Posted On:
    6/05/2011 5:18am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Epeeist View Post
    The folklore and folk history of a certain other martial art claims that some of its customs originated among sailors and fishermen:



    Many capoeira songs and traditions revolve around being a sailor, sailing, fishing, and being on the sea in general. Maybe sailors from two sides of the world thought alike on this front and developed a similar kick.
    Indeed it could be, but it also could be the same kick that went around the world with the sailors long before it got incorporated in Capoeira and Savate. We will probably never know
    the real origens of that kick except that it also works on rocking ships.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  5. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,774

    Posted On:
    6/05/2011 5:32am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a plausible theory that connects the origins of savate to the French colonial activity in Northern Africa, based on documented accounts of French soldiers, etc. watching African kick-fighting sports in the very late 1700s. It's all interesting speculation.
  6. Epeeist is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    314

    Posted On:
    6/05/2011 12:47pm


     Style: Kyokushin/Capoeira

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    There's a plausible theory that connects the origins of savate to the French colonial activity in Northern Africa, based on documented accounts of French soldiers, etc. watching African kick-fighting sports in the very late 1700s. It's all interesting speculation.
    A lot of Capoeira Regional was derived from the extinct kick-fighting game Batuque, a game which, according to word of mouth (virtually everything in Capoeira comes from this as poor black underworld ex-slaves/gangsters were illiterate) Mestre Bimba's father was a master of. The original, "pure" Capoeira looked a lot like what today is called Capoeira Angola, low, slow, non-flashy kicks, and according to some mestres this "original" Capoeira was mainly a headbbutting game. According to Brazilia mestres I've talked to, the kicks like martelo (snapping roundhouse kick like a TKD or Karate roundhouse), chapa giratorio (spinning back kick), esporão (hook kick), and the flashier kicks came from Batuque.

    It would be interesting to speculate that Savate's foot techniques such as its hook kick originate in Africa somewhere at least at their root.
  7. Mordschlag is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    193

    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 1:06am


     Style: ARMA, Antagonistics

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    There was a kick like that in the kung fu I learned, called a tiger tail kick. I played around with using it in sparring. The way I found best was to do it like a stepping through side kick, where you step behind your front leg before kicking (like Bruce Lee was always doing), only on the step that angles the hip to kick, you also angle your body so you can put your hand (s) down. I do it once in a blue moon these days; its a novelty and I don't really do it or train it often. But anyway, some thoughts…only try these if you're some sort of foppish, galavanting dandy, such as myself.
    Very cool, thank you for your thoughts on this. The same stepping-through motion is usually called a croise (I believe) when applied to chasse kicks in Savate, and I see how this can be useful. The croise can make your chasse kicks cover a lot more distance and can be good for knocking people back large distances, so I can imagine the same movement could allow you to cover distance and then rapidly execute this type of kick.

    Also while I am not quite a dandy, I enjoy reading the works of Lord Byron and I can be quite homo so I think that qualifies me to kick in this manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    …A portion of the chausson kicks start from the ground from the position that you see in the above video.
    For example:
    - the foot of the leg that's on the ground locks behind the achilles of the opponent (you can see the "roundhouse" from the knee in the clip when he's moving his position to face the opponent)
    - the leg that's "hovering" will perform a side kick just beneath the plexus (at midfiff height) whilest at the same time the defender will push himself off the ground using his both hands to gain more distance to his side kick.

    Other use of chausson kicks are to gain more height with the kicking leg in a spinning reverse roundhouse kick or a back kick if you are wearing trousers that prevent you from getting to head level, for example if you are wearing jeans trousers...
    Interesting! Very interesting! I like the idea of using these kicks after falling down. When I was doing a bit of dagger fighting at the last Throwdown in Santa Barbara, I did a fouette kick to the face of my sparring mate and actually got my boot stuck in his fencing mask and fell because of it (and got stabbed). I also like what you say about using it for a back kick. I very much like using the revers lateral kick, so I can see the value of doing it in this manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    There's a plausible theory that connects the origins of savate to the French colonial activity in Northern Africa, based on documented accounts of French soldiers, etc. watching African kick-fighting sports in the very late 1700s. It's all interesting speculation.
    Thanks for the Bartitsu links, I always find them interesting.

    As far as the Capoeira and Savate connection goes; honestly who knows for sure? While it is possible there was some cultural diffusion going on, it could also be that two groups of people developed something similar independent of each other and the similarity is coincidence. The Celts and the ethnic Japanese both used pattern welding to forge their swords, but that doesn’t mean a boatload of Celts landed in Japan and taught them how to do pattern welding…though that would have been pretty sweet if it did happen.
  8. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,774

    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 1:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordschlag View Post
    As far as the Capoeira and Savate connection goes; honestly who knows for sure? While it is possible there was some cultural diffusion going on, it could also be that two groups of people developed something similar independent of each other and the similarity is coincidence. The Celts and the ethnic Japanese both used pattern welding to forge their swords, but that doesn’t mean a boatload of Celts landed in Japan and taught them how to do pattern welding…though that would have been pretty sweet if it did happen.
    Oh, sure - I've frequently made the same argument myself. In this case, though, we have the instance of there being no (currently apparent) records of a kick-fighting sport/game in France, then French documentation of kick-fighting in North Africa, then the first documented references to chausson and savate as kick-fighting activities in France. It's far from conclusive, but it is the basis of a plausible theory.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.