The reason LEO's are not developing DT ability

**BKR** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 11:13am

Basic Info

Name:~ Canadian Combatives ~ Category:Sports & Recreation - Martial ArtsDescription:Military Combative Training for Law Enforcement, Security Personnel and Civilians. Training is set up into modules don't join for years, train for days.

The Curriculum is a fusion of Ninjutsu / American Combatives / Jeet Kune Do, Street tested and Battlefield Proven.

Personal Protection Redefined!Privacy Type:Open: All content is public.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 11:22am

Okay IN can you answer the question succinctly?

What exactly are your credentials. Please don't mix them in a huge post.

Basically something like:

It is Fake:
12 years competitive swimming
BA in English.
Customer Service Agent
28 years of Korean, Japanese, CMA and Hybrid martial arts.
Bouncer/Personal Security.
TSA Agent.

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 12:02pm

I don't teach MA and do not hold myself out as anything more then a hobbyist. However when I went to your site, I found plenty of videos in which you discuss your system, but I did not see the one in which you demonstrate your system. I'm not looking for anything fancy or advanced, but a clip say, five minutes long showing some of the basic moves of your system. Thanks in advance.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 2:07pm

Oh and I forgot to add
Asst/Co/Full Instructor: 10 years.

**Team Python** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 6:28pm

It always amazes me about these people who either provide training or give advice on Defensive Tactics for law enforcement but yet never been in law enforcement especially as a street cop. How can one know what or does not work if they have never experienced the job. That is like me trying to give a class on race car driving but yet never been on the track.

**Intrepid North** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 6:42pm

Hi guys. Ok... trying to learn how your forum works here and what the difference is between the thread we were discussing on... and this particular thread but will do my best to answer here.

Intrepid North
Assistant/Leading Instructor in the rival of
work of Bill Underwood and his original DEFENDO
(Law Enforcement and Security applications) and COMBATO Systems
Military Unarmed Combat) 2000 to 2004
Chief Instructor and Founder of Canadian Use of Force Systems
and the Immediate Recall High-Stress Combatives System 2004 to present
Full-time contractor to Canadian and International Law Enforcement and Military assets
since 2004
Tactical Assessment-Disengagement Instructor to FIRE and Tactical EMS Professionals since 2008

This is all anyone needs to know about me. As I said very pointedly if you want to contact me off-line I will put you in direction contact with Federal Tactical Instructors and others who will verify for you exactly who I am, my expertise and the quality of offering it represents. Off-line I am prepared to email you letters of reference from Federal Agencies and I will even send you some inside agency technical briefs on the concept and what it achieves. I have known of your forum for quite some time so I have respect for you, if I found out these documents were abused I would not be happy.

Although I trained as a "hobbyist" in a variety of traditional types of arts my core background has been in years past as the leading proponent behind the revival and continuing instruction of Bill Underwood's original DEFENDO and COMBATO systems. In 2004, I developed the "Immediate Recall High-Stress Combatives" platform with its evolving applications and have been making a living engaged in full-time contract work in this vein ever since.

Again, I am learning here how your forum operates but the very first "reply" above refers to "Canadian Combatives" and reference to the fact its ...

"The Curriculum is a fusion of Ninjutsu / American Combatives / Jeet Kune Do, Street tested and Battlefield Proven".

There is no such thing as "Canadian Combatives" as a system. I used it as a descriptor but it is certainly NOT a fusion of Ninjutsu, American Combatives etc... if that is referring to an assessment on what I do. I have never had anyone who has trained with us ever make those observations.

Firstly, our website and content on the site represented via video etc... is reflecting older material that we taught publicly, much of it based in Underwood's Defendo and Combato systems. *I purposefully have not committed Immediate Recall to video for the general public for a number of reasons. It's operational specificness for Tactical, UC, VIP Protection, CBRN/NCB, IARD, SET and various more sensitive profiles is not for the civilian market. The LE and Mil assets I do work with do not like the material out there "willy-nilly" all over the web and so I have committed to not putting it there and secondly, this is my living and I am not going to put it to outside agency video as it is what feeds my family. For the life of me I can't understand why some people can't get that. Any of the Canadian SOF guys that I know who do contract work, handle this the exact same way for these reasons. If you want it, come and train with us. If you think I am spouting hot air after we train... and our method does not do EXACTLY what I say it does, you don't pay. That is a fact. I have been operating by that claim since 2004 and no one has taken me up on it.

So, will make the invitations available to you guys again. If you want to come to Toronto, come and be my guest and I will prove the method to you. Willing to verify my credentials and activites WITH professional agencies off-line. Call me and we will set that up. Thirdly, I will be teaching in New York and New Jersey in September and Washington State with regional and California Tactical assets in early October by the looks of it. If you are in proximity to any of these, I will see if I can make arrangements for you to visit. Let me know what else I can do for you. Appreciate your forum. Good work. Best, Robbie

**Intrepid North** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 7:58pm

Team Python:

Well, I can assume from your reference to "these people" you are obviously referring to me.
Your statement gives a window to your lack of experience into how these dynamics really work with subject matter experts whether they are from inside or outside any given agency.
In doing so as well you are also calling your "brothers" idiots and very likely some of them have a great deal more experience and skill than you.

SME's work WITH agency assets to problem solve and develop what is needed. SME's have a great deal of focus on an area where the operating department does not have the time to be so single-minded in focus. Tactics and methods are developed and AGENCY experts work with, test and implement and take FIELD REPORTS on the effectiveness of the subject matter. When top assets are introduced to, test train and then use it themselves THEN tactics and methods are adopted. I teach NOTHING that hasn't been proven effective in all kinds of methods by very experienced guys who have done a hell of a lot of field work. It's funny they get it and there is never any attitude and they are very thankful for the outcomes. When I work with an agency we haven't done R&D with they don't adopt a damn thing that doesn't make perfect sense once pressure tested with their top guys.

A history lesson for you... Your CIA established in 1947 recieved all of its core training as the OSS from the British Security Coordination under the direction of Sir William Stephenson (Intrepid) during WW2. He trained Wild Bill Donovan and gave them their original template which started at Camp-X in Canada. The BSC was populated by largely civilian SME's that worked with their operators and instructors in developing tactics, methods and training which then were proved effective.

There is nothing new here. I don't have to interview and take down a subject on the street to know what I am doing. I apply my gifts to theirs and we are all better because of it and I have learned one hell of alot from very, very seasoned LE and Mil professionals.

**Team Python** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 8:39pm

Originally Posted by Intrepid North

Team Python:

Well, I can assume from your reference to "these people" you are obviously referring to me.
Your statement gives a window to your lack of experience into how these dynamics really work with subject matter experts whether they are from inside or outside any given agency.
In doing so as well you are also calling your "brothers" idiots and very likely some of them have a great deal more experience and skill than you.

SME's work WITH agency assets to problem solve and develop what is needed. SME's have a great deal of focus on an area where the operating department does not have the time to be so single-minded in focus. Tactics and methods are developed and AGENCY experts work with, test and implement and take FIELD REPORTS on the effectiveness of the subject matter. When top assets are introduced to, test train and then use it themselves THEN tactics and methods are adopted. I teach NOTHING that hasn't been proven effective in all kinds of methods by very experienced guys who have done a hell of a lot of field work. It's funny they get it and there is never any attitude and they are very thankful for the outcomes. When I work with an agency we haven't done R&D with they don't adopt a damn thing that doesn't make perfect sense once pressure tested with their top guys.

A history lesson for you... Your CIA established in 1947 recieved all of its core training as the OSS from the British Security Coordination under the direction of Sir William Stephenson (Intrepid) during WW2. He trained Wild Bill Donovan and gave them their original template which started at Camp-X in Canada. The BSC was populated by largely civilian SME's that worked with their operators and instructors in developing tactics, methods and training which then were proved effective.

There is nothing new here. I don't have to interview and take down a subject on the street to know what I am doing. I apply my gifts to theirs and we are all better because of it and I have learned one hell of alot from very, very seasoned LE and Mil professionals.

So in layman terms you were never a cop but yet you are an expert on the matter. What person or organization made you an SME on this matter? Also what is your martial arts background to make you an expert on anything related to Defensive Tactics.

You see myself some others on this forum not only train in legit martial arts but we were or are LEO's. However we don't go around calling ourselves experts. It appears you came on this forum to try to get some free advertisement for your business. Well good luck on that but I think we have enough so called experts already here in the U.S. and we don't need another one so stay in Canada.

**Vorpal** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 9:14pm

I work for a federal agency where we actually go out on the streets and arrest people on a regular basis. The ones that can handle themselves in a physical confrontation are the ones that train martial sports or tmas with live training of just happen to be big, strong aggressive bastards. I have been involved with LE since 86, these course come and go. Most of them are useless. If you are in LE do judo, boxing, sambo, or bjj. OP, if you want to sell something buy some goddam advert space, don't sneak it in the back door.

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 5/29/2011 9:21pm

I like to make the joke that I have black belt eyes and yellow belt skills, but after six years on Bullshido looking at various martial arts claims, I've seen clips of over 100 martial arts or applications of such martial arts. Normally such film gives you a good idea if the instructor is teaching realistic techniques, and can apply them against resisting opponents. Practically every time the "its a secret" argument has been used, the reason is embarrassment rather then a real boni-fide reason. For example it was very difficult to obtain tape of "52 blocks" until recently, and what the tape showed, was it was a stylized version of boxing with more evasive movement, but really nothing that unique.

There are a whole lot of people doing WWII style combatives, but its unclear what makes your approach technically different then say, Damian Ross's or Chris Pizzo's. (are there some Ninja rolls thrown in?)