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  1. cam4276 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 7:58am


     Style: MMA / BJJ / Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    New Judo rules - opinions

    Hey guys,

    Just wanting to get everyones opinions on the recent changes to the rules in Judo. I am a total noob so really wanted the opinion of the more experienced guys.

    I read recently that pickups and stuff which are now banned are relatively new developments anyway. I actually like pickups and am not that keen on the new changes mainly because my MMA training meant that my Double leg (marote geri?) was the only reliable throw i had.

    Just to specify the new rules state that you cannot grab below the belt at all while standing (that is the BJA interpretation anyway) and this now includes scooping the leg not just grabbing the pants. There is one exception for one of the foot sweeps which you can turn into a throw by scooping the leg.

    Some of the older more experienced guys in my club say that we will start seeing better Judo in the next few years because of it but what do you guys think?

    We should save these videos as a reminder of what judo once was.
    YouTube - Judo Pick Ups I
  2. Siniq is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 8:10am


     Style: Gym drifter

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo rules are becoming stupider by the minute.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBadGuy
    The Dog kid's mom is parked next to me in the parking lot. He runs up and asks me a question. "Hey dude, where did you learn that stuff?"

    "That was grappling. Real MMA."

    "Where do I go for that?"

    I was a little shocked. Sure, he changed sides quickly, but I guess even a dog can realize it has more in common with the wolf than with the shephard.

    I give him the names of some BJJ schools in the area, and we go our separate ways.
  3. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 8:51am

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     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To be clear, they're using the junior worlds (?) as a test case for this rule. They're also trying out a single-judge system (no side judges).

    I think the no-below-the-belt stuff is ridiculous. It's also the logical extension of recent changes. Basically, judo has two options: allow a lot of different grappling styles and methodologies, or try to enforce a certain type of play (one style or methodology known as "good judo;" please don't try to pin down the amorphous quantity, it doesn't like that). Since the Russians, judo has decided to go the latter route:

    -eliminate "unorthodox" grips
    -mandate attacks within a certain amount of time
    -eliminate even more grips
    -ban a "defensive" posture (ie, you have to stand up straight)
    -eliminate pants-grabbing
    -and now, eliminating all below-the-belt attacks.

    This is wholly separate from judo's fine history of banning techniques due to injury rates discovered due to statistics; that is a fine thing.

    We now have Greco-Roman Judo. Why? Because they want to see Yamashita-style players, who are calm and attack decisively with traditional moves. That's great and all, but you can't mandate a certain style of play.

    I think judo is ripe for a rules split--one for Greco-Roman Judo (stand up straight, don't touch the legs, and think of Kano), one for freestyle judo (what we've basically had within the last few years), and one Fucking Crazy division with no-gi, Kosen judo (no standups) in order to be MMA-relevant.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  4. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 8:53am

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well, not sure about the others, but kata guruma (firemans carry) has been around for a long time, as i see it in mifune sensei's "canon of judo"

    i don't like the new rules, but i'm a white belt who would like to be able to use the wrestling that i know. this will probably force me to develop other parts of my game, but i have been doing that already (haven't grabbed a leg during randori yet.)
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  5. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 8:59am

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    kata guruma has been part of judo from the beginning. it's one of the original 40 throws. but it's one that the judo snobs want removed. so according to some people kano taught bad judo.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    try to enforce a certain type of play (one style or methodology known as "good judo;" please don't try to pin down the amorphous quantity, it doesn't like that).

    I think under scrutiny it would completely dissapear (the amorphous quantity)

    The rule that you must stand up straight is supposedly because bending over like a wrestler will get you punched or kneed in a real fight. I think that's fine. If judo wants to be a fighting art it should stand against outsiders. but then they go and ban the double leg. So who needs to learn to sprawl. Maybe they need to loss of face of a blackbelt getting slammed by a highschooler with six months training to see the light.
  6. raleigh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 9:02am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wow, you must be a newb. that IS NOT what judo once was.
  7. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 9:04am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    judo is not koryu. it's not something to be put in a box and preserved. it should evolve with the times or die off.
  8. 2Many is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 9:11am


     Style: Legalese

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The new rules:
    http://www.intjudo.eu/?Menu=News&Act...ang_id=2&mid=4

    All techniques below the belt line will not be allowed anymore.

    Any athlete trying to grip the opponent´s leg will be punished with a shido (first time). If another try happens, he will be banned from the combat (hansokumake) and the victory will be given to the opponent. Only techniques using leg against leg will be allowed, or if the hand grip in the leg is the continuation of another technique tried (example: ouchigari which can develop into kataguruma).


    Quote Originally Posted by cam4276 View Post
    I actually like pickups and am not that keen on the new changes mainly because my MMA training meant that my Double leg (marote geri?) was the only reliable throw i had.
    Looks like Morote Gari will be banned, unless it is used as a follow-up to an attack in a combination.

    Quote Originally Posted by cam4276 View Post
    Just to specify the new rules state that you cannot grab below the belt at all while standing (that is the BJA interpretation anyway) and this now includes scooping the leg not just grabbing the pants.
    It seems like any INITIAL attack to the legs using the hands is forbidden. Such attacks will need to be primed by an attack not reliant upon grabbing the leg with the hand(s).

    Quite a shame, really. The IJF has a point about the overly defensive crouched-over position that some competitors adopt, though. But an all-out ban on leg picks sounds like an over-reaction. Judo should adapt to changing demands in the art, just like Kano did with his techniques, rather than being insulated by layers of arcane rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    I think judo is ripe for a rules split--one for Greco-Roman Judo (stand up straight, don't touch the legs, and think of Kano), one for freestyle judo (what we've basically had within the last few years), and one Fucking Crazy division with no-gi, Kosen judo (no standups) in order to be MMA-relevant.
    I think just "Freestyle" Judo, and "IJF Competition Judo" will do fine. Freestyle Judo can be safety (see "In Practice and Competition" here: Judo rules) and anti-stalling rules without time limits for affecting Ne Waza. IJF Competition Judo can be the labyrinthine rule-driven version.
    Last edited by 2Many; 8/28/2009 9:26am at .
  9. Tom .C is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 9:14am

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     Style: Aikido,Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Though it's obvious that competitors will have to adapt to the rules changes to compete, I would like to see Judo players have some voice in these changes. Dumb changes like these should cause players to boycott events and either change or quit their organisations.

    Rule changes to promote safety I have no problems with. Changes that effectively eliminate basic Judo techniques should create enough backlash from the players that organisations would be forced to consider that without the support of the players, they will cease to exist.
  10. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/28/2009 9:18am

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     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitchslapper View Post
    The rule that you must stand up straight is supposedly because bending over like a wrestler will get you punched or kneed in a real fight. I think that's fine. If judo wants to be a fighting art it should stand against outsiders. but then they go and ban the double leg. So who needs to learn to sprawl. Maybe they need to loss of face of a blackbelt getting slammed by a highschooler with six months training to see the light.
    Evidence to bold? I think the change was just due to them not liking "them Bee Jay Jay ers with them there Bazillion accents n stuff" coming in with a hunched-over posture and wrecking people's ****.

    I think there's value in standing up straight, but you can't mandate it. If you want the people who stand up straight to win, then the solution is to allow hunched-over postures, but teach the counters and techniques that work against it. If judo becomes an island of standing up straight, it becomes irrelevant.

    There's a fringe judo org--not Zen Judo, but similar--that has a "judo" tournament where they go a couple steps further than this. Basically they will give a penalty for any defensive movement other than Yamashita-style hip blocks and evasions. The same for unorthodox grips (ie, anything other than basic sleeve-and-lapel) and non-67-throws attacks. If you bend over, stiff-arm, struggle or try a Koga seoinage, you're out. It's like Tom Kagan's video explaining stupid American tai chi competition rules, except it's judo. Sorry, "judo."

    Quote Originally Posted by raleigh View Post
    wow, you must be a newb. that IS NOT what judo once was.
    What are you referring to?
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
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