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  1. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 9:05am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aliveness involves "progressively increasing resistance" not "throw them in at the deep end, 100% hard sparring on day one and forever thereafter".
    Last edited by Lu Tze; 5/22/2011 9:07am at . Reason: I don't need to insult people all the time.
  2. judoka_uk is offline
    judoka_uk's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 9:18am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  3. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 9:55am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze View Post
    Aliveness involves "progressively increasing resistance" not "throw them in at the deep end, 100% hard sparring on day one and forever thereafter".
    Thornton discusses this in his "Aliveness" video that we continually reference. Since most of the people/schools we are arguing with already have compliance entrenched as part of their training, it's the non-compliant part that we are pushing them to try.

    Learning technique without drilling the "isolation" phase is mostly a waste of time.

    Edit: A better title for this thread might have been, "The value of the isolation phase of drilling".
  4. yli is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 10:31am


     Style: Stabbing the Face.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quoted from one of my KM Books: "The truth is, these limitations are necessary in order for beginners to practice the techniques; it's hard to practice a triangle choke if your partner is biting the inside of your thigh."

    I'm going to adopt that as my personal position on the value of the isolation phase of drilling.
  5. sweats is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 11:03am


     Style: Shotokan & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    Rhetorical question?

    The leg locks and wrist locks. Sambo guys are laughing at us and calling us pussies. Aikido guys are doing the same. Both sides have their points on the discussion right? As to why BJJ has compliant rolling that excludes these very deadly and technical aspects. Compliant training high and low in BJJ.
    You let Aikido guys call you a *****? Really?

    I think a lot of the BJJ aversion to leglocks comes from the "gospel" that's been passed down.
    1. If you teach new people leglocks, they'll never learn to correctly pass the guard.
    2. Leglocks are oh so dangerous.
    3. A lot of leglocks put you in an inferior position or scramble if they fail.

    Hopefully as time goes on and more BJJ guys get exposed to and comfortable with lower body submissions, we'll see this tendency fade. Personally I'm glad that spazzy noobs at my school aren't trying to heel hook each other, but I think every decent grappler should be acquainted with the major lower body submissions at the very least to become aware of when they're leaving themself vulnerable. I know my whole open guard game changed after I started rolling with a Bayless Jiu-Jitsu black belt.

    If I know the person I'm rolling with well enough and trust that they're not going to try cranking the submission on an unsuspecting noob or fight until something pops, I'll throw on (but not necessarily finish) a kneebar or toe hold if they leave themself open. I do have to admit taking perverse glee in repeatedly tapping people with the (perfectly legal) straight ankle lock when they leave their feet just hanging out in space.
  6. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 11:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Thornton discusses this in his "Aliveness" video that we continually reference.
    Yeah, a fact that critics of Thornton overlook all the time.

    Not saying that wilful ignorance is the norm or anything... actually wait, that's exactly what I'm saying.
  7. shotfghter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 12:41pm


     Style: Street Focus Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by superninjagod View Post
    This isn't complaint training by definition. Just because there are agree upon rules it does not make the training compliant.
    In all honesty, I view it as compliant. I understand the reasons told to me why I shouldn't be doing leg or wrist locks, but the whole reason anyone does BJJ or any type of grappling martial art is to be a complete grappler.

    I understand I'm starting to sound like a "street fighter" here (No Ryu or Abel Jokes please), but that's our goal right? Who in here doesn't want to be good at Gi and No gi, on top of knowing alot ie. covering all aspects. Even wrapping your leg around someones leg is forbidden, it's for safety obviously, but it's compliant.

    We go easy on each other is all I'm saying, because our true goal is to submit each other by any means available when we go to a tournament and fight. The same without the "Any means" when we fight our training buddies.

    You let Aikido guys call you a *****? Really?
    I see what you're saying, I don't want some of the guys who explode all the time trying to heel hook me, Some people have chipped my tooth spazzing around, imagine them with my ankle. I think it's a good idea that we can't do it. But for the sake of the OP, it is compliant training.
    Last edited by shotfghter; 5/22/2011 12:44pm at .
  8. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 1:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Compliant training is compliant
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  9. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 1:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Would padwork be considered compliant?
  10. karma2343 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 2:43pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing, nogiJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Odacon View Post
    Would padwork be considered compliant?
    Depends on how its going. The way I see it, if the pad holder throws the occasional strike for you to deal with (that isn't in a set pattern), I wouldn't call it compliant. But if its just a set combination, then yes.
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