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  1. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 11:39am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Twobits View Post
    It's called Taihenjutsu? Taihen just means "difficult" in Japanese, I believe. So, "difficult skill"?

    I guess it's descriptive because it's difficult/impossible to evade sword attacks consistently, but...it's such a stupid name.
    No you have it wrong.
    The kanji that make up taihenjutsu 体変術 are TAI (Body), HEN (Change, transform), JUTSU (Method). So it means the Method/art of changing the body ie body movement skills.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  2. Hiro Protagonist is offline
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    Has entered Barovia...

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 11:58am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh, what the heck, Aikido makes more fun that Ninjutsu anyway.
  3. Twobits is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 2:16pm


     Style: kendo, FMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    It seems to me that if your opponent is swinging a goddamn sword at you, its last resort time.
    I honestly can't tell if you're just kidding. Yes, I'm just that stupid.

    Maybe I'm reading that post by Hack&Slash wrong, but it sounded to me like he was saying that his old instructor taught the following:

    1. Opponent draws his sword
    2. you do a bunch of shoulder rolls to avoid attacks

    versus:
    1. opponent draws his sword
    2. you draw your own sword and fight back (or better yet, just plain running)

    as evidenced in this post:

    my Buj instructor emphasized sword defense techniques that did not involve drawing a sword, except as a last resort. Instead there was all this fancy stepping around and rolling to avoid the blade.
    And I was just guessing at the taihenjutsu thing so I will fully admit my own stupidity.
  4. Rock Ape is online now
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2011 5:50am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry I'm late to this party..
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    I mean honestly, how can one style say to another, "You're doing it completely wrong"?
    It's not a matter of style, it's a matter of technicality. There are only so many ways to effectively bend a joint the wrong way; the same principle exists for cutting and use of a Japanese sword. The sword it's self, it's shape, it's cutting edge and it's construction all contribute to how it must be used for it to work effectively. If I were to post videos of several different legitimate Japanese sword schools, those principles would be visible despite some very different style methodology behind the systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    Hatsumi has his way of doing things.
    Correct, but from what I've seen of his way of doing things and, the little exposure I've had of students who study Ninjutsu generally, none of them really know the arse-end of a Japanese sword and, if they were confronted with someone who did, none of that bullshit they think they understand would stand much chance once in the reach of the blade.
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    Kendo is an art that primarily revolves around the "Sword". Meaning the same for Kenjutsu, with the difference of kenjutsu allowing more parts to be struck. So both are "Sword Styles".
    Wrong.

    The term "Kendo" refers to "Shinai Kendo" where bogu and shinai are used. Kendo isn't a sword style. Kendo developed as a means of training and originally also contained elements of jujutsu (research Genken Kendo) where one legitimate way of winning a bout was to grapple the "men" the protective headguard off one's opponent. Over time and with the formation of the All Japan Kendo Federation, Kata were introduced where the use of the sword ensured a direct connection to Kendo's origins however, even still, Kendo is not a "sword style"
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    If they are flawed Principles then they are flawed.
    exactly my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    Hatsumi is just fucking something up. That's what 9chambers pointed out. Not something that's debatable like 'differing views on technical approaches' just plain: fucking up.
    Again, exactly my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    I could also understand what you mean by fundamentals. ..//.. The thing is Hatsumi is not just teaching one art, hes teaching a bunch. His speed and way of teaching is a little different as well, hes an old man.
    Sorry but age has very little to do with the quality behind the principles or fundamentals of what he's doing - unless of course what he's been doing all his life has been equally shite.

    There are Japanese instructors all in and around their 60's-70's and some older who are still very capable kenjutsuka; sure their technique now may not be so dynamic or as fast as it once was BUT, the principles upon which their existing techniques are STILL based are just as sound as they were 30 or 40 years earlier. That's the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    No, it isn't semantics at all. In all Sword arts there are fundamental rules to cutting, stabbing, slicing, and drawing based on the weapon you are using. These do not disappear because you know 45 different styles and your art is more of a hybrid.
    Absolutely correct !!!! in fact, if one understands the correct form/principle/fundamental, having knowledge in other systems which utilise the same only serves to reinforce the quality of what you both physically do and theoretically understand.

    The bottom line however is very simple. ITS ALL FUCKING ACADEMIC - learning to use a Japanese sword, regardless of style is of absolutely no use what so ever in terms of practical self defense and, whilst those of us who've spent a considerable amount of out lives studying Japanese sword arts - mine include Kendo, Muso Shinden Ryu and Seitei Iai - can discuss the quality of one individual over another, in the end, arguing about such things on the internet is just like the special olympics, we all look retarded.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  5. Hack&Slash is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2011 5:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kenjutsu, karate, bojutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, I misspoke before, should've proofread better.

    What the Buj shidoshi actually said was that about 75% of the sword wasn't sharp, and pointed out that the 6-inch span of the blade about 3-4 inches in from the tip would be the only portion of the sword that was sharpened.

    Hmm, this actually fits with Western sword philosophy. Sharpening the blade tends to weaken it (ie. an incredibly sharp blade will be damaged if you hit a dull blade edge on), so you leave parrying surfaces relatively unsharpened. I'm not sure if this is true for nihonto but it would make a fair amount of sense.
    I have not heard of this concept, so I'll have to read into it, but you're not supposed to parry with the edge in the first place, rather with the sides of the blade.
  6. Hack&Slash is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2011 5:15pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kenjutsu, karate, bojutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Twobits View Post
    Maybe I'm reading that post by Hack&Slash wrong, but it sounded to me like he was saying that his old instructor taught the following:
    1. Opponent draws his sword
    2. you do a bunch of shoulder rolls to avoid attacks

    versus:
    1. opponent draws his sword
    2. you draw your own sword and fight back (or better yet, just plain running)
    No that's exactly it. Someone asked earlier in the thread why not evade and block at the same time. With my sword classes, we actually have such exercises, wherein we attempt to fully evade an opponent's strike and present a solid block as added defense. These drills also force us to evade/block different strikes at full speed, as opposed to Bujers who only learn to defend against slow, highly exaggerated shinchoku giri/shomen giri (vertical cuts).
  7. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2011 5:16pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hack&Slash View Post
    Sorry, I misspoke before, should've proofread better.

    What the Buj shidoshi actually said was that about 75% of the sword wasn't sharp, and pointed out that the 6-inch span of the blade about 3-4 inches in from the tip would be the only portion of the sword that was sharpened.



    I have not heard of this concept, so I'll have to read into it, but you're not supposed to parry with the edge in the first place, rather with the sides of the blade.
    This will be for the ninja-to of which there is no historical evidence?

    And FWIW, japanese swords were seldom sharpened.
  8. Zod is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2011 9:37pm


     Style: Weight Lifting,Combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hack&Slash View Post
    Sorry, I misspoke before, should've proofread better.

    What the Buj shidoshi actually said was that about 75% of the sword wasn't sharp, and pointed out that the 6-inch span of the blade about 3-4 inches in from the tip would be the only portion of the sword that was sharpened.



    I have not heard of this concept, so I'll have to read into it, but you're not supposed to parry with the edge in the first place, rather with the sides of the blade.
    That small span a hands breadth or so from the tip of a sword is the center of percussion or the 'sweet spot' for cutting. At least, it is on 'western' swords. So the Buj in question might have been regurgitating that factoid.
  9. hapkido_keith is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2011 11:45pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    And FWIW, japanese swords were seldom sharpened.
    Depends on the time period. If you're talking about the Edo period where there was peace and samurai only philosophized about battle, then, yes, sword were rarely sharpened (mostly because they were rarely used). If you're talking about the Sengoku period, swords were damaged and subsequently had the edges re-ground and resharpened all the time, cause they were actually used in battle and suffered abuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    Bullshido is not like the police department, or even POWNET; it really just gets random hard ons and then follows it's dick.
  10. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2011 9:08am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    This will be for the ninja-to of which there is no historical evidence?

    And FWIW, japanese swords were seldom sharpened.
    If it was a time of war/conflict then they were kept sharpened. IF it was possible a sword would be sharpened after a battle/campaign to maintain the edged and be refitted if necessary.

    If it was a time of peace then yes they were seldom sharpened. That's when modern togi methods came into play to highlight the aesthetic quality of the blade.

    EDIT: Keith already beat me to it.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
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