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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 5:27pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    Dude he fights people with ropes and claws.
    Okay, I wasn't sure before but you are now officially trolling.
  2. shotfghter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 5:30pm


     Style: Street Focus Jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No he is not. He knows a few teaches each ONE as a appropriate.
    THIS is an extremely valid point. So, out of curiosity, he NEVER mixes them up? I've seen him do sword to sword fighting, then go for strikes, and locks.



    Okay, I wasn't sure before but you are now officially trolling.
    He doesn't???? Are you serious? Do i have to pull up vids on him attacking people with ropes and claws? He commented on how it would be stupid to groin strike someone with a sword, I'm saying how he goes beyond that. Not only does he attack people that have swords with his hands, he uses a variety of other ways.
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 5:31pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    You're right, I apologize, When I read that the USJA was allowing him to reapply I thought he was exaggerating his rank. Apologies. I still think my point stands, in a vacuum, yes it looks a little suspect. But it's a situational technique, thought in a grandmasters way that is a little different. If the Kenjutsu guy feels its useless, it's his opinion. A well respected opinion.
    What are you talking about?
  4. shotfghter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 5:38pm


     Style: Street Focus Jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Matt Morton? I thought he was a legitimate teacher that just exaggerated his rank.

    http://www.bullshido.org/Matthew_Morton#Conclusion

    A long time ago I read the article and misunderstood it.

    Whatever my point being that if something is taught specifically for one art, it may not apply for another art that has different objectives. Fundamentally speaking, the OP argued that the whole thing was pointless to begin with.
    Last edited by shotfghter; 5/22/2011 6:07pm at .
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 6:56pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post

    Whatever my point being that if something is taught specifically for one art, it may not apply for another art that has different objectives.
    You are arguing two different things here and don't even know what you are talking about at this point.



    Fundamentally speaking, the OP argued that the whole thing was pointless to begin with.
    Fundamentally speaking, you create your own arguments out of nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    THIS is an extremely valid point. So, out of curiosity, he NEVER mixes them up?
    Mixing them up does not equal
    The thing is Hatsumi is not just teaching one art, hes teaching a bunch.
    Everybody mixes techniques. EVERYONE. When they teach, they teach you the FUNDAMENTALS and then mix them together. No, that is not the same as what you just typed.

    He doesn't???? Are you serious?
    Yes.
    Do i have to pull up vids on him attacking people with ropes and claws?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by shotfighter
    Dude he fights people with ropes and claws.
    I noticed you have moved from "fighting" to "attacking." Go get the FIGHT videos not Demonstration videos. That's why I said you were trolling. I now see you are serious and that's kind of sad.

    So, if Chuck Liddell does something fundamentally incorrect it is unassailable because, he is teaching many styles not just one? Yes, the Kempo he uses is a hybrid style He has added BJJ and Muay Thai. So, since he has morphed styles his techniques can't be critiqued by other similar styles because, he is trying to accomplish something different? Sorry, that's ridiculous or I just don't get what you are trying to express.

    Oh and yes, he really is an instructor and former MMA champion.
  6. shotfghter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 7:27pm


     Style: Street Focus Jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I noticed you have moved from "fighting" to "attacking." Go get the FIGHT videos not Demonstration videos. That's why I said you were trolling. I now see you are serious and that's kind of sad.
    it is impossible to find a Fight video of Bujinkan. You're picking little arguments. Him actually fighting has nothing to do with what I am trying to say, I'm responding to one poster thinking that Hatsumi transitioning into physical strikes is nothing out of the ordinary. If YOU feel that he has to actually fight with it, then thats your opinion.

    You are arguing two different things here and don't even know what you are talking about at this point.
    If the kenjutsu guy feels that the technique itself is useless, then he is doing so from a purely kenjutsu standpoint. The dynamics in the Bujinkan are much more different than his style. Argue fundamentals? The fundamental of what? If kenjutsu doesn't even train in as many things the booj is getting ready for its not the same thing. I know you guys say that multiple styles shouldn't destroy fundamentals, but its not because it getting ready for other facets of bujinkan fighting.

    If he feels its slow, please, that argument has been made so much I'm not even going to get into it.
    Last edited by shotfghter; 5/22/2011 7:42pm at .
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 7:39pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    it is impossible to find a Fight video of Bujinkan. You're picking little arguments.
    Your point is working technique allows a different interpretation and then you say fight.
    No, it is an integral part of your argument and not small. If he is doing something different and it works in a non-compliant manner than you have a point. All things and all arguments can't be critiqued when everything is complaint.

    If the kenjutsu guy feels that the technique itself is useless, then he is doing so from a purely kenjutsu standpoint. The dynamics in the Bujinkan are much more different than his style.
    No, they are not. BJJers, Catch Wrestlers, Wrestlers, Samboists, submission wrestlers and Judokas all critique each other only TMAers, minus Judo Boxing and Muay Thai make the argument you are trying to support.

    If he feels its slow, please, that argument has been made so much I'm not even going to get into it.
    Then quit bringing it up. For someone not wanting to argue that point you haven't stopped addressing it.

    Go argue on MAP if that is what you are discussing. The OP here has not said useless. I am addressing what you are arguing on this thread.
  8. shotfghter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 7:52pm


     Style: Street Focus Jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, they are not. BJJers, Catch Wrestlers, Wrestlers, Samboists, submission wrestlers and Judokas all critique each other only TMAers, minus Judo Boxing and Muay Thai make the argument you are trying to support.
    All those grappling styles are the same with different rules.

    Kenjutsu is mainly a sword art, Bujinkan Taijutsu or whatever name it goes by now is a multiple school. Yes it is taught in different schools, but if the sword were to drop out of Hatsumis hand he would go into another form of school. He would slap someone, or claw them or whatever.

    If what Hatsumi is teaching is a sword only style, that has NO transitions into unarmed, or claw, or rope combat then I will concede all my arguments and admit that Hatsumi is making a horrible mistake and that he is being lazy and teaching crap that particular day.

    EDIT: Upon further reading, it turns out that Hatsumi is clanking his sword in his scabbard, or whatever its called. This is one of the bad techniques pointed out. This point has huge validity, seeing as it damages the sword according to the folks in in MAP.
    Last edited by shotfghter; 5/22/2011 8:13pm at . Reason: Adding something.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 8:16pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    All those grappling styles are the same with different rules.
    I'm out. I am certain Judo has similarities, like kendo, kenjustusu, TaiJutsu and Bujinkan, same with different rules?

    No.

    Kenjutsu is mainly a sword art, Bujinkan Taijutsu or whatever name it goes by now is a multiple school.
    No.

    If what Hatsumi is teaching is a sword only style, that has NO transitions into unarmed, or claw, or rope combat then I will concede all my arguments and admit that Hatsumi is making a horrible mistake and that he is being lazy and teaching crap that particular day.
    Hopefully someone will address this because, your logic has failed you. See the Chuck Liddell example you keep ignoring.
  10. shotfghter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2011 8:32pm


     Style: Street Focus Jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, if Chuck Liddell does something fundamentally incorrect it is unassailable because, he is teaching many styles not just one? Yes, the Kempo he uses is a hybrid style He has added BJJ and Muay Thai. So, since he has morphed styles his techniques can't be critiqued by other similar styles because, he is trying to accomplish something different? Sorry, that's ridiculous or I just don't get what you are trying to express.
    Hmm Ok. What is the fundamental difference? Name them/it. The OP in the other thread is is pretty much saying, this technique is ****. Like we haven't seen that before. They punch wrong according to boxers, they kick wrong according to TKD dudes, their stance is crap according to MMA guys, their grappling is crap according to BJJ dudes. I mean come on.
    guy in hasso (high stance)
    Hatsumi sword sheathed
    guy waits
    Hatsumi draws and cuts
    guy attacks.

    Do you see the flaw?

    No-bujinkan-ass-kissing version

    guy in hasso (high stance)
    Hatsumi drawing sword
    guy kills Hatsumi
    everyone happy
    Once again everyone has argued that "I WOULD KILL HATSUMI IF HE TRIED THAT ON MEEEE!!!!" What can I say to that?

    I am rather surprised at your reaction...Why do you think the Uchidachi would even bother to move if he saw Hatsumi drawing first? He has space, he has the lead, and he has a superior position...For a cut..But he waits...What's "fine" about that?

    Or more to the point, what is this teaching? (The "sudden movement" certainly doesn't "stall Uke" it causes him to start his attack..An attack that has already failed..)
    So he feels the technique sucks, he doesn't like it, it too compliant, What can I say to those arguments? What Fundamentals? are being discussed here? Don't attack a man with superior positioning? You think bujinkan is useless???? Whatever.

    I could understand if the sword holding is wrong, if he stabs himself to attack the other guy, something that makes you cringe. I keep arguing on this aspect, the guy thinks the technique is useless, and I keep saying - In the booj it has its use.

    Fundamental, but no one is actually showing me what fundamentals are wrong.
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