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  1. #21

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Striking to the neck can is a technique LEOs are taught called the brachial stun. It can mess someone up (see the pimp smackdown video). http://tdatraining.blogspot.com/2009...hial-stun.html

    OTOH, I had a 6'3" cop demo this on me (I was young and stupid). Didn't do jack.

  2. #22
    tao.jonez's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Has anyone ever experienced a drop in their heart rate while rolling sparring or randori?
    Never that I am aware of. I don't know how I would notice this unless the effect is severe.

    Regarding the instant KO thing, I bet it relates to a blood pressure differential of some sort - if a person has a high heart rate and blood pressure the body and the brain use more oxygen. If the blood flow is cut off suddenly during this high usage scenario (strangulation / carotid "choke") I'd wager the victim goes out more rapidly.

    I say the brain uses more oxygen because I heard a report that claims our brains are most active when we exercise/play sports. I don't know if it's true, but the report made sense.
    "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln




  3. #23
    Coach Josh's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Striking to the neck can is a technique LEOs are taught called the brachial stun. It can mess someone up (see the pimp smackdown video). http://tdatraining.blogspot.com/2009...hial-stun.html

    OTOH, I had a 6'3" cop demo this on me (I was young and stupid). Didn't do jack.
    Not part of the discussion
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

  4. #24
    WhiteShark's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judoka_uk, he felt more guilty than badass. It was in practice and I was pretty tired. Low hands = neck kick.

    It is interesting though it doesn't hurt much at all. You just see a shin out of the corner of your eye then wake up on the mat.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Not part of the discussion
    Was in reference to someone getting KO'ed from a MT kick to the neck. Agree that it has a different mechanism of action.

  6. #26
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So no one else will put in their thoughts on how the choke works?

    So the most common explanation that I have heard in reference to blood chokes is that you brain becomes oxygen deprived and you pass out due to this experience. Yet it takes 3 minutes without oxygen for you to die. If your brain was suffering from oxygen deprivation for periods of a time like they suggest wouldn't some brain cells die and we all would be suffering from being "punch drunk"?

    Also why do some chokes instantly work and others take time? Do they instantly remove oxygenated blood from the brain when it is applied?

    I ask these questions because we all take at face value what we are told by instructors. When these things do not hold up to the basic scientific method of inquiry what does that say about your hypothesis?
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

  7. #27
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    So no one else will put in their thoughts on how the choke works?

    So the most common explanation that I have heard in reference to blood chokes is that you brain becomes oxygen deprived and you pass out due to this experience. Yet it takes 3 minutes without oxygen for you to die. If your brain was suffering from oxygen deprivation for periods of a time like they suggest wouldn't some brain cells die and we all would be suffering from being "punch drunk"?
    Some people are indeed having those kind of problems:

    . A case is presented of a patient with signs of anoxic brain damage, with psychometric investigation showing memory disturbance consistent with a left temporal lobe lesion. This patient had been frequently strangled during his career as a judo player; it is suggested that such frequent strangulation was the cause of the damage. Such an observation indicates the need for caution in the use of such techniques.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1806745

  8. #28
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The big problem is falling unconsious is a fairly standard defence mechanism and can have been tapped a number of ways from a choke. Ranging from lack of oxygen nerve triggers or even pain and shock.

  9. #29
    Southpaw's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Also why do some chokes instantly work and others take time? Do they instantly remove oxygenated blood from the brain when it is applied?
    Is it possible that no carotid choke works any faster than any other...but rather the person being choked is much more aware of it in some cases than others?

  10. #30
    tao.jonez's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    So no one else will put in their thoughts on how the choke works?

    Also why do some chokes instantly work and others take time? Do they instantly remove oxygenated blood from the brain when it is applied?

    I ask these questions because we all take at face value what we are told by instructors. When these things do not hold up to the basic scientific method of inquiry what does that say about your hypothesis?
    Where I was going is that the brain shuts down when the variances in blood pressure are registered. The brain turns off non-essential functions as a survival mechanism, using what is available when it recognizes that no (or limited) oxygenated blood is coming in.
    "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln




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