Explain how a carotid choke works.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 1:25pm

Striking to the neck can is a technique LEOs are taught called the brachial stun. It can mess someone up (see the pimp smackdown video). http://tdatraining.blogspot.com/2009...hial-stun.html

OTOH, I had a 6'3" cop demo this on me (I was young and stupid). Didn't do jack.

**tao.jonez** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 1:43pm

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

Has anyone ever experienced a drop in their heart rate while rolling sparring or randori?

Never that I am aware of. I don't know how I would notice this unless the effect is severe.

Regarding the instant KO thing, I bet it relates to a blood pressure differential of some sort - if a person has a high heart rate and blood pressure the body and the brain use more oxygen. If the blood flow is cut off suddenly during this high usage scenario (strangulation / carotid "choke") I'd wager the victim goes out more rapidly.

I say the brain uses more oxygen because I heard a report that claims our brains are most active when we exercise/play sports. I don't know if it's true, but the report made sense.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 2:39pm

Originally Posted by Res Judicata

Striking to the neck can is a technique LEOs are taught called the brachial stun. It can mess someone up (see the pimp smackdown video). http://tdatraining.blogspot.com/2009...hial-stun.html

OTOH, I had a 6'3" cop demo this on me (I was young and stupid). Didn't do jack.

Not part of the discussion

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 2:52pm

Judoka_uk, he felt more guilty than badass. It was in practice and I was pretty tired. Low hands = neck kick.

It is interesting though it doesn't hurt much at all. You just see a shin out of the corner of your eye then wake up on the mat.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 2:54pm

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

Not part of the discussion

Was in reference to someone getting KO'ed from a MT kick to the neck. Agree that it has a different mechanism of action.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 8:48am

So no one else will put in their thoughts on how the choke works?

So the most common explanation that I have heard in reference to blood chokes is that you brain becomes oxygen deprived and you pass out due to this experience. Yet it takes 3 minutes without oxygen for you to die. If your brain was suffering from oxygen deprivation for periods of a time like they suggest wouldn't some brain cells die and we all would be suffering from being "punch drunk"?

Also why do some chokes instantly work and others take time? Do they instantly remove oxygenated blood from the brain when it is applied?

I ask these questions because we all take at face value what we are told by instructors. When these things do not hold up to the basic scientific method of inquiry what does that say about your hypothesis?

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 9:05am

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

So no one else will put in their thoughts on how the choke works?

So the most common explanation that I have heard in reference to blood chokes is that you brain becomes oxygen deprived and you pass out due to this experience. Yet it takes 3 minutes without oxygen for you to die. If your brain was suffering from oxygen deprivation for periods of a time like they suggest wouldn't some brain cells die and we all would be suffering from being "punch drunk"?

Some people are indeed having those kind of problems:

. A case is presented of a patient with signs of anoxic brain damage, with psychometric investigation showing memory disturbance consistent with a left temporal lobe lesion. This patient had been frequently strangled during his career as a judo player; it is suggested that such frequent strangulation was the cause of the damage. Such an observation indicates the need for caution in the use of such techniques.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1806745

**gregaquaman** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 9:13am

The big problem is falling unconsious is a fairly standard defence mechanism and can have been tapped a number of ways from a choke. Ranging from lack of oxygen nerve triggers or even pain and shock.

**Southpaw** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 10:07am

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

Also why do some chokes instantly work and others take time? Do they instantly remove oxygenated blood from the brain when it is applied?

Is it possible that no carotid choke works any faster than any other...but rather the person being choked is much more aware of it in some cases than others?

**tao.jonez** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 10:10am

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

So no one else will put in their thoughts on how the choke works?

Also why do some chokes instantly work and others take time? Do they instantly remove oxygenated blood from the brain when it is applied?

I ask these questions because we all take at face value what we are told by instructors. When these things do not hold up to the basic scientific method of inquiry what does that say about your hypothesis?

Where I was going is that the brain shuts down when the variances in blood pressure are registered. The brain turns off non-essential functions as a survival mechanism, using what is available when it recognizes that no (or limited) oxygenated blood is coming in.