Explain how a carotid choke works.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 12:36pm

We are all assuming the mechanics but in case anyone out there in reader land is wondering: We are all talking about a rear naked choke style attack that focuses pressure on the sides of the neck under the jaw and behind the larynx. That is what makes it a strangle or blood choke instead of a wind choke like a guillotine.

**Colin** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 12:40pm

Assuming this is no trick question, the simplest way I would describe what is happening here is that you are starving the brain by restricting the blood flow.

Is some other, strange arcane process going on here?

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 12:42pm

Some people believe that it is a vasovagal response instead of an actual hypoxic episode. The theory is that the short time it takes to cause unconsciousness isn't really enough time to cause hypoxia in the brain. Therefore something else must be happening.

**Colin** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 12:49pm

Well, is it possible that the increased pressure of the blood actually stimulates the response?
Kind of like when you are watering the garden, and you bend the tip of the hose to create a better pressure stream.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 12:50pm

Reading the wikipedia article on vasovagal response, because I can't access medical papers with my arts department login.

Prior to losing consciousness, the individual frequently experiences a prodrome of symptoms such as lightheadedness, nausea, the feeling of being extremely hot (accompanied by sweating), ringing in the ears (tinnitus), uncomfortable feeling in the heart, fuzzy thoughts, a slight inability to speak/form words (sometimes combined with mild stuttering), weakness and visual disturbances such as lights seeming too bright, fuzzy or tunnel vision, and sometimes a feeling of nervousness can occur as well.

I've never been put out, but I've come close and I've never experienced any of those apart from the fuzzy vision thing and no one I've spoken to who's been choked out has mentioned felling hot, ringing in the ears etc...

Also

The person may be nauseated, pale, and sweaty for several minutes.

Don't know anyone who's been put out who had this either usually they wake up and are a bit confused.

Not saying its impossible to be a vasovagal response as I'm not qualified, but the symptoms don't really seem to fit. Although as you say it may be problematic with the cutting the blood theory, because of the speed. Then again I don't know how long a 'reserve' the brain has if any.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 12:59pm

That is the description for a wide range of vasovagal problems what you are looking for is vasovagal syncope which is basically just feinting. Syncope by itself is the medical term for feinting. I've been put out several ways including thai neck kick and RNC. It all feels like feinting.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vas...yncope/DS00806

Note: I'm not a doctor all my experience with feinting and hypoxia and blood reserves comes form fighting and or lifeguarding.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 1:01pm

What is the rule of three?

Why do some chokes instantly KO someone and other times they have a chance to tap?

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 1:04pm

No idea what Rule of Threes is but I could google it. I guess you mean this?
3 minutes without air
3 hours without shelter
3 days without water
3 weeks without food
3 months without hope

The 3 minutes without air is what I had heard from lifeguarding too. Supposedly it can be extended to 5-20 minutes with fresh water and extreme cold.

As far as some chokes being instant It basically has to do with how you apply it. I get wicked fast taps in tournaments but I let people have time in practice.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 1:07pm

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

That is the description for a wide range of vasovagal problems what you are looking for is vasovagal syncope which is basically just feinting. Syncope by itself is the medical term for feinting. I've been put out several ways including thai neck kick and RNC. It all feels like feinting.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vas...yncope/DS00806

Note: I'm not a doctor all my experience with feinting and hypoxia and blood reserves comes form fighting and or lifeguarding.

Ouch on the KO from a leg kick, bet that guy felt like a fucking badass afterwards.

vasovagal syncope — a brief loss of consciousness caused by a sudden drop in your heart rate and blood pressure, which reduces blood flow to your brain.

Interesting that again reduction of blood flow is at issue so maybe the strangle is replicating the effects of a vasovagal syncope without actually inducing one, but again just guess work.

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

What is the rule of three?

Why do some chokes instantly KO someone and other times they have a chance to tap?

What's the rule of three?

I'd always assumed a combination of expert application, physiology and tiredness. You?

EDIT:
Saw whiteshark's post if you're talking about that 'rule of three' that's till death not till unconsciosness, not sure if there's rule for inducing unconsciousness.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 1:16pm

Vasovagal syncope (vay-zo-VAY-gul SING-cuh-pee) is the most common cause of fainting. Vasovagal syncope occurs when your body overreacts to triggers, such as the sight of blood or extreme emotional distress. The trigger results in vasovagal syncope — a brief loss of consciousness caused by a sudden drop in your heart rate and blood pressure, which reduces blood flow to your brain

Has anyone ever experienced a drop in their heart rate while rolling sparring or randori?