Explain how a carotid choke works.

[Snake Plissken]

i'd really like to see how different the blood pressure is in the brain compared to the rest of the body during a choke. if the BP in the body drops because of carotid sinus pressure, yet the BP in the brain is much higher, then the reason you pass out is probably NOT because of the bradycardia.

go read a bit on the meninges and all the ancillary physical effects that can occur from it.

consider that arteries are thicker and under higher pressure than the veins, and the veins are closer to the surface, so may be constricted easier(this part might not actually matter). blood can enter the brain, but it can't escape so well. blood pressure would rise.

arteries, for simplicity's sake, are like cooked pasta and veins are like ribbons with a bit more pliability.

"Thicker" isn't necessarily better as sclerosis can be construed as "thicker" yet is a detriment. Vascular pliability will actually aid in the carriage of blood away from the dependent area.

[Coach Josh]

Looking at the symptoms and signs of high intracranial pressure these seem to be more inline with what I feel when choked.

[toyamabarnard]

Remove wasted space

I have a paper titled "Neck Restraints As a Use of Force"

[DCS]

I have a paper titled "Neck Restraints As a Use of Force" I just can't remember where I got it or who wrote it, but should be verifiable easily enough. Here's an excerpt:

Everybody has it. We're discussing if what says in it is correct.

This is the long version:

http://www.css.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/cprc/tr/tr-2007-03E.pdf

Looking at the symptoms and signs of high intracranial pressure these seem to be more inline with what I feel when choked.

Including vomits, headaches, back pain, abducens nerve paralysis and optic disc swelling?

[Coach Josh]

vomits, headaches, back pain and optic disc yes. nerve stuff IDK

[DCS]

vomits, headaches, back pain and optic disc yes. nerve stuff IDK

the nerve stuff:

Cranial Nerve VI: Abducens nerve innervates the lateral rectus. The cartoon/drawing below shows a right CN VI nerve palsy, characterized by the excessive aDDuction at rest and failure of aBDuction when gazing right.

http://www.ohsubooks.com/objectives/...I.2C_IV_and_VI.

[Coach Josh]

That is what the docs are checking for when they examine someone after a KO.

While many of us instructors are not MDs it would behoove us to learn a little more about the effects of the techniques we teach.

[Outis]

I don't recall coming across this article in the thread, so my apologies if the link has already been posted:

http://www.judoinfo.com/chokes2.htm

A couple of anecdotes from my own personal experience:

When working triangle chokes with my training partner, I'd hold up my hand in a ready-to-tap position, nod for him to keep tightening, and tap when I began to feel light-headed. This seemed to be the classic constriction of the blood vessels and trapping of the blood in the head that would have produced unconsciousness had I not tapped. My partner said my face would get beet red before the tap.

Now on another occasion I got paired up in class with a random partner to drill loop chokes. We faced each other on hands and knees, tori rolling and pulling uke over, and then tori and uke both coming back up on hands and knees. I saw how tight the choke could be and accordingly took a grip a little way down uke's collar so it wouldn't be too tight. Well, when it came my turn to be uke, the idiot I got paired with didn't reciprocate and made a point of taking a higher grip that nearly did me in every time we rolled over. On one of those repetitions, I remember bracing myself for what was coming and then opening my eyes and finding myself back on my hands and knees without any recollection of having been rolled over.

I honestly believe that I got my gi collar pulled into the side of my neck so fast and hard that it did a job on my carotid sinus and put me out instantaneously for a split second.

[DCS]

On one of those repetitions, I remember bracing myself for what was coming and then opening my eyes and finding myself back on my hands and knees without any recollection of having been rolled over.

I honestly believe that I got my gi collar pulled into the side of my neck so fast and hard that it did a job on my carotid sinus and put me out instantaneously for a split second.

Happened to me too, drilling this (start at 0:40):


I was out before the roll ended.

[marceloGreat]

I hope this thread isnt too old to be brought back. I just wanted wanted to know if there was a consensus on this? Im guessing it is a combination of all of them.

Something I think is interesting is when I push with two fingers on on each side of the trachea in the carotid area but not touching the sides of my neck, all over my body everything starts going numb and hard to control but I never lose consciousness. And when I push hard on the sides of my neck but not near the sides of my trachea and seemingly not the carotid area, blood builds up in my head and my eyes and lips and stuff feel like theyre under alot of pressure but not much else happens and I dont lose consciousness. Then when I turn my palms toward the back of my body and use my thumbs to compress everything from the sides of my trachea all the way to where the neck muscles become significant simulating a RNC, I start becoming kind of light headed, loss of vision, losing control of muscles, etc and let go before I fall down. But then again what do I know? I could be/probably am totally wrong, and when Im doing this its probably just simulating incomplete/incorrectly applied chokes that are only halfway compressing the necessary areas...

Anyway, hence my reasoning that it is most likely a combination of the causes given:restriction of jugular and pressure, vagus/carotid sinus, etc.

Opinions on this? And yes I know I shouldnt be choking myself, I only did it one time to see different effects of compressing different areas.