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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2011 11:09pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another avenue worth exploring is what striking pressure does to that nerve/artery, as opposed to constriction. Both striking the vagus/sinus and constricting it seem to have similar effects, based on something I watched happen.

    Case in point: I just watched Wanderlei Silva punch Mike Bisping in the neck in the closing seconds of their UFC110 fight, and sure enough Bisping drops like a sack of potatoes.

    Bisping collapsed like a rag doll, appears semi-conscious. His legs literally gave out and he was on his back, barely able to defend himself. He looked dazed. Again, this punch clearly lands in the carotid zone. This was in the last 5 seconds of the fight when Silva lets loose. What was a very close 3 round fight went to Silva in the last few seconds because of this knockdown.

    So it seems possible that hitting the vagus/sinus area is sufficient to cause the same response as slowly constricting it. I'm not talking what wetware meant by tapping it I mean a solid strike in that nerve cluster.

    Like a panic button for your blood pressure. Down you go.

    I'll bet there's more video of neck punch knockouts out there waiting to be discovered...
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/19/2011 11:19pm at .
  2. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2011 11:10pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Why wouldn't you have experienced vasovagal response, since it's part of everyday (non-judo) strangulation?
    Because I've never gone out in less than 7-10 seconds. Typically it takes 12-14 seconds when the choke is solid and I decide to be stubborn. What I call "grey chokes" affect me the quickest. Instead of the black tunnel approaching slowly everything greys out quickly enough that I barely have time to tap.

    It may not be relevant, but I've always had a thick neck. However, I have also heard that neck muscle is unyielding enough to assist rather than hinder a well executed choke.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2011 11:22pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll bet body chemistry and the quality of blood supply is a big factor.

    People with healthy blood supplies (nutrition/exercise) can probably maintain consciousness a lot longer than people with unhealthy blood chemistry, when being choked.

    Is it easier to choke a fat person? Now there's some science to explore.
  4. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2011 11:26pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Is it easier to choke a fat person? Now there's some science to explore.
    Personally, I doubt it. I'm fat, and I am very hard to choke out.

    I think the comment about circulation is the most important, since it's the circulation you're trying to cut off, right? I think the reason for this is because it's simply going be far harder to properly 'cut off' the arteries.
  5. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2011 11:34pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    Personally, I doubt it. I'm fat, and I am very hard to choke out.
    Yes, but anecdotal experiences have no bearing on any kind of valid study or trial. Amusingly, this invalidates almost anyone's personal experience, including mine.
  6. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2011 11:40pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Yes, but anecdotal experiences have no bearing on any kind of valid study or trial. Amusingly, this invalidates almost anyone's personal experience, including mine.
    Right, but absent a field of study, anecdotes is all I have.

    I think something else that may confound this is that typically, people who are fat probably have poor circulation due to a lack of overall fitness.. and therefore will be choked out easily, but I don't think it's because of their fatness.
  7. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2011 7:58am

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I'll bet body chemistry and the quality of blood supply is a big factor.

    People with healthy blood supplies (nutrition/exercise) can probably maintain consciousness a lot longer than people with unhealthy blood chemistry, when being choked.

    Is it easier to choke a fat person? Now there's some science to explore.
    I fat person will likely have other medical conditions, such as hypertension and COPD, which might likely make it easier for them to pass out.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    It may not be relevant, but I've always had a thick neck. However, I have also heard that neck muscle is unyielding enough to assist rather than hinder a well executed choke.
    I am going to say yes and no. Thick neck muscles, like the sternomastoid, guard the arterial and vascular system, however if you move "into" a choke the muscle can help the apply pressure.
  8. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2011 9:58am

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    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    I'm thinking that's what happens when someone goes out from a kick or hard ridgehand to the neck. (I only use those two examples because those are the only ones I've seen happen. I'm sure it could happen with being punched or elbowed, too) I doubt the amount of displaced blood is enough to cause the whole process.

    Not a valid part of this discussion. Traumatic shock is an entirely different thing and not relevant to this discussion.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  9. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2011 10:02am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am really pumped at how this is turning out. Now I have to ask can we say that without a shadow of a doubt that a KO from a choke is caused by lack of oxygen to the brain?
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  10. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2011 10:20am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    I am really pumped at how this is turning out. Now I have to ask can we say that without a shadow of a doubt that a KO from a choke is caused by lack of oxygen to the brain?
    knockout from a grappling submission or knockout from strikes?
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