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  1. Coach Josh is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 9:24am

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     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    I'm really obtuse and thick skulled. What do you mean?
    Picking up from here sorry about the delay in addressing this point about winning in training. My question was how do you "win" in training? You responded above with that quote. So I ask you again, how do you win in training?

    How do you win while practicing anything for that matter?

    If you have been in MA for 18 years just how old are you?
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  2. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 9:44am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Picking up from here sorry about the delay in addressing this point about winning in training. My question was how do you "win" in training? You responded above with that quote. So I ask you again, how do you win in training?

    How do you win while practicing anything for that matter?
    That's exactly what I'm wondering. I have no idea what you're talking about when you're asking how do you "win" in training. Where did that question come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    If you have been in MA for 18 years just how old are you?
    I don't like to give out personal information on anonymous message boards. How is my age relevant to the discussion?
    Last edited by MaverickZ; 5/12/2011 9:57am at .
  3. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 10:00am

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    This thread needs more Aliveness:

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Thornton
    Finally, all that’s left is a sports like environment, and performance. At this point it’s time for the ego’s last step. The realization that measurement itself is futility.

    Although what you are now left doing is a million times more ‘real’ than anything an image based Martial Artist will ever engage in; it still must not serve as a measurement of who YOU are.

    Why? For one it’s always relative so you must evaluate yourself ONLY based on YOUR own increases in performance. And although that requires another person, or opponent, that does not mean you are measuring yourself against that person. You only measure your progress based on your previous skill level, not their previous skill level. There will ALWAYS be someone better, stronger, faster, or smarter on any given day. There will also ALWAYS be people you will better then, on any given day. Therefore that form of measurement is meaningless at best. All that matters is that you grow in comparison to where you where before, NOT in comparison to who you could or could not beat before.

    The second reason why measurement is futility is because WHO you actually ARE exists completely outside duality, and therefore outside the process of measurement.

    But that’s another article.
    http://www.straightblastgym.com/newbook.htm

    bold mine
  4. Coach Josh is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 10:02am

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    I understand the need to learn to solve problems under pressure. And that competitive sports of all sorts can develop this is kind of skill makes a lot of sense. I'm trying to reconcile how playing a sport, a game with no particular end goal besides "winning", with learning martial arts, which are a definable set of skills with applications outside their own practice.
    This is why I asked the question

    Age is extremely relevant in the framework of a discussion. I am 40 so it will effect my perception of things due to the life experiences. Plus if your 22 and you have been training for 18 years you have not been training as an adult for 18 years but maybe 6 years really.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  5. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 10:03am

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    This thread needs more Aliveness:



    http://www.straightblastgym.com/newbook.htm

    bold mine
    Could you add a bit more analysis please?
  6. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 10:08am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    This is why I asked the question
    Ah I see, I was trying to convey a purely surface meaning of the word "winning". i.e. Basketball players don't play basketball to bounce the ball. The core mechanic of basketball is to put a ball into a basket. Whoever does that more often is the winner. Playing basketball is not training to apply the skills of basketball to another activity. You play basketball so you can play basketball.

    I can see how playing martial arts can be similar, but the core mechanical of martial arts is hand to hand combat, whether "fighting" or self defense. It is training for another scenario.

    Let me ask you, when you train to perform the uchi mata, what are you training to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Age is extremely relevant in the framework of a discussion. I am 40 so it will effect my perception of things due to the life experiences. Plus if your 22 and you have been training for 18 years you have not been training as an adult for 18 years but maybe 6 years really.
    I'm sorry but that seems like a setup to discredit me based on age. I think the discussion as it's been ongoing is much more useful and interesting than any ad hominem discussion.
    Last edited by MaverickZ; 5/12/2011 10:16am at .
  7. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 10:25am

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    Playing basketball is not training to apply the skills of basketball to another activity. You play basketball so you can play basketball.
    At any given point, there are plenty of people who are playing one-on-one, or two-on-two, or just having fun practicing with the hoop over their garage. I'd suspect that at any given moment, there are more people playing basketball-like games that aren't basketball-by-the-rules than there are playing basketball. People play these games to work up a sweat, make and spend time with friends, to daydream more effectively about their favorite NBA players, to "zone out" while working on their free throws because it's a relatively closed and simple problem...unlike the problems of life, etc.

    I'd argue that relatively few people practice lay-ups in their driveway or spend time at the playground with three friends to "play basketball", that being a game of five players on five in a court of a specific size with two hoops on either end.

    At any rate, how much of your martial arts practice involves practicing your goal of being killed by some criminal or horde of the same while your family flees. Is your family involved in drilling fleeing? Oh, and after you do die in one of these brawls against the the forces of evil, what are your plans for family protection?
    Last edited by Rivington; 5/12/2011 10:29am at .
  8. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 10:31am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    At any given point, there are plenty of people who are playing one-on-one, or two-on-two, or just having fun practicing with the hoop over their garage. I'd suspect that at any given moment, there are more people playing basketball-like games that aren't basketball-by-the-rules than there are playing basketball. People play these games to work up a sweat, make and spend time with friends, to daydream more effectively about their favorite NBA players, to "zone out" while working on their free throws because it's a relatively closed and simple problem...unlike the problems of life, etc.

    I'd argue that relatively few people practice lay-ups in their driveway or spend time at the playground with three friends to "play basketball", that being a game of five players on five in a court of a specific size with two hoops on either end.
    I didn't mention any of that. What I had stated was the core mechanic of basketball is putting a ball into a basket. That action is not a simulation of some other action in another sphere. Whereas an uchi mata on the tatami mat where you do not throw your partner on his head is a simulation of an uchi mata done to cause injury to another person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    At any rate, how much of your martial arts practice involves practicing your goal of being killed by some criminal or horde of the same while your family flees. Is your family involved in drilling fleeing? Oh, and after you do die in one of these brawls against the the forces of evil, what are your plans for family protection?
    Do you feel that insulting me would get your point across better or worse? I want to understand why the "talk down" tone is appropriate for this discussion. Do my questions bother you in some way?
    Last edited by MaverickZ; 5/12/2011 10:39am at .
  9. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 10:45am

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    I didn't mention any of that. What I had stated was the core mechanic of basketball is putting a ball into a basket.
    Now you're just playing. I was responding, primarily and obviously, to "Playing basketball is not training to apply the skills of basketball to another activity. You play basketball so you can play basketball."

    And I pointed out that clearly this isn't so. Most people are applying the skills of basketball to some activity that isn't actually basketball. The endless layups of my next-door neighbor are not to prepare him for five-on-five games on a court with two hoops.



    Do you feel that insulting me would get your point across better or worse? I want to understand why the "talk down" tone is appropriate for this discussion. Do my questions bother you in some way?
    Because you haven't demonstrated good faith. You're being given opportunities to do so. I'd recommend taking a couple of them. So far it's been rhetorical dodges, a few "huhs" and by my count only a couple real good-faith responses (mostly around the Bennett piece). It's easy enough to to trace the discussion: you say you want to learn how to fight. After a while I managed to get out of you who you wanted to fight—criminals who without your intervention would harm your family. Further you admitted that your victory condition would be the family getting away even if you died.

    Well, one—it doesn't take martial arts training to do that. (This went unacknowledged or unargued by you), and two—is what you're training actually preparing you to do that? I tend to suspect not, but you have moved to making a tone argument rather than responding to the meat of the argument. You made a similar dodge with Josh; his question about what your eighteen years of training means is totally apposite, you simply insisted that it was going to turn into an insult. If your eighteen years of training involves ten years of you in kiddie TKD and daydreaming of fighting off Shredder along with your Ninja Turtle pals, well, that really is something different than not. That's not an ad hominem at all.
  10. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 10:52am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Now you're just playing. I was responding, primarily and obviously, to "Playing basketball is not training to apply the skills of basketball to another activity. You play basketball so you can play basketball."

    And I pointed out that clearly this isn't so. Most people are applying the skills of basketball to some activity that isn't actually basketball. The endless layups of my next-door neighbor are not to prepare him for five-on-five games on a court with two hoops.
    I was not clear about what I meant by "basketball", I did not mean playing a five on five game in a regulation court with uniforms and referees. I meant to relate the word basketball to the physical activity of throwing a ball into a basket. I'm sorry if I was not very clear about that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Because you haven't demonstrated good faith. You're being given opportunities to do so. I'd recommend taking a couple of them. So far it's been rhetorical dodges, a few "huhs" and by my count only a couple real good-faith responses (mostly around the Bennett piece). It's easy enough to to trace the discussion: you say you want to learn how to fight. After a while I managed to get out of you who you wanted to fight—criminals who without your intervention would harm your family. Further you admitted that your victory condition would be the family getting away even if you died.

    Well, one—it doesn't take martial arts training to do that. (This went unacknowledged or unargued by you), and two—is what you're training actually preparing you to do that? I tend to suspect not, but you have moved to making a tone argument rather than responding to the meat of the argument. You made a similar dodge with Josh; his question about what your eighteen years of training means is totally apposite, you simply insisted that it was going to turn into an insult. If your eighteen years of training involves ten years of you in kiddie TKD and daydreaming of fighting off Shredder along with your Ninja Turtle pals, well, that really is something different than not. That's not an ad hominem at all.
    I think I have demonstrated quite a bit of good faith considering your tone towards me in this discussion. At no point did I use snark or insults and I have posed questions which are sincerely on my mind. And I've also taken the answers I could get seriously. If you don't consider that good faith, then I'm sorry.

    Are you saying that martial arts training will not increase my capabilities to hold a person back? Is there any self defense use for the martial arts?

    And if it's useful to the discussion let's say I'm 23 years old and I've had 18 years of strip mall shotokan karate.
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