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  1. Rivington is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:07pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    What other activity should I take up if I want to learn how to fight?
    Robotics. That's the future of fighting, chief.
  2. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Robotics. That's the future of fighting, chief.
    I don't think I understand your post.
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    But I want to train in the martial arts so I can learn to fight, not to gain those other benefits. What other activity should I take up if I want to learn how to fight?
    Politics.
  4. Rivington is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:16pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    I don't think I understand your post.
    Let me put it another way. You say you want to learn to fight? Well, how you should go about doing that depends on who you anticipate fighting. You want to learn to fight whom, where? Other dilettantes, in some amateur contest? Well, you're on the right track, but your eighteen years weren't then actually spent learning how to fight, but just how to fight other dilettantes under whatever ruleset is legal in your state.

    Do you want to learn how to fight street criminals, in order to replicate the comic books? Well, even superheroes have weapons and gadgets, so just get one of those combination Taser-brass knuckle set dealies and remember not to press the button when scratching your own nose. Or maybe eskrima will do.

    Do you want to learn how to fight as part of the sociopathic warrior elite of society, in order to protect William J. Bennett's fat ass? Robotics, son. The future of fighting is drone vs drone, and virus vs virus.
  5. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:24pm

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     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Live training is better than non-live training, that's for sure. But live training can mean this:
    Personally I don't have any problem with push hands or Olympic TKD. I think it's all good stuff in it's own way. Fencing isn't particularly hardcore/painful, but it's challenging and gives you an opportunity to free-play with what you've learned. I think that's mostly what matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    Because I'm not yet convinced that the benefits that people attribute to martial arts practice can't be gained elsewhere with better results, without having to train to fight. In activities better suited to the people who don't want to learn hand to hand fighting.
    Purely my own opinion, but: fighting is a very common metaphor for life. Life is a battle, I'm feeling conflicted, he was at war with himself, I'm fighting the urge, etc. etc. Thus MA/CS make for a better experience to draw comparisons between their practice and one's normal life than, say, baseball.

    Edit: I don't think it's the same thing to be a dilettante as opposed to a amateur/casual practitioner. The amateur/casual person may still train hard with improvement as a goal, they just don't improve as quickly or reach the same heights as a professional. When I think of a dilettante, I think of someone who doesn't commit to trying to improve and has fun just showing up whenever, playing, and whatever happens happens. Nothing wrong with that either and I think they gain some benefit too, just not as much.
    Last edited by maofas; 5/11/2011 4:34pm at .
  6. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:25pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Let me put it another way. You say you want to learn to fight? Well, how you should go about doing that depends on who you anticipate fighting. You want to learn to fight whom, where? Other dilettantes, in some amateur contest? Well, you're on the right track, but your eighteen years weren't then actually spent learning how to fight, but just how to fight other dilettantes under whatever ruleset is legal in your state.
    This is very true. Learning how to fight people who themselves are only dilletantes isn't really useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Do you want to learn how to fight street criminals, in order to replicate the comic books? Well, even superheroes have weapons and gadgets, so just get one of those combination Taser-brass knuckle set dealies and remember not to press the button when scratching your own nose. Or maybe eskrima will do.
    I'd like to learn fighting so I can put up just enough of a fight that my family can get away while I bite it. The practicalities and legalities of carrying weapons make preparing for a real self defense situation difficult, that's for sure. But what is the alternative? How should I prepare to defend myself out in the real world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Do you want to learn how to fight as part of the sociopathic warrior elite of society, in order to protect William J. Bennett's fat ass? Robotics, son. The future of fighting is drone vs drone, and virus vs virus.
    Why did you choose to call it "warrior elite"? Do you agree with Heinlein's view of a martial society?
  7. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:33pm

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     Style: 柔道

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    Who is this William J. Bennett you're talking about and why?
  8. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:35pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Who is this William J. Bennett you're talking about and why?
    http://www.mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
  9. Rivington is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:36pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    This is very true. Learning how to fight people who themselves are only dilletantes isn't really useful.
    Well then, you should quit! Or, perhaps acknowledge that in the end learning how to fight is just a matter of fun, since most of us aren't going to end up either in the UFC or being sucked through our wardrobes into Narnia to fight for Aslan.

    I'd like to learn fighting so I can put up just enough of a fight that my family can get away while I bite it.
    Eh, you probably don't even need to know how to fight to do that, especially if the scenario ends with you dying.

    The practicalities and legalities of carrying weapons make preparing for a real self defense situation difficult, that's for sure.
    You could always move to Vermont. Guns is easy up there. Not a lot of crime either, because of the low population, relatively little inequality of wealth, and its rurality.

    How should I prepare to defend myself out in the real world?
    Given that your slice of the real world is the prosperous United States of the early twenty-first century, it's easy! Control a) your attitude and/or b) your environment. Most violent conflict—street crimes and such—come from one or another. If you're getting mixed up in the local criminal element, or being a loudmouth badass wannabe, you'll get into fights (attitude). If you live in a crime-ridden place, you are more likely to be a victim (environment). Even if you cannot control both, most normal adults can usually manage the one or the other. If you're really worried about being killed on the streets while your family flees...just move someplace nicer. Quit martial arts and spend the time on a second job to afford a better neighborhood. If your attitude is the problem, work on being gentle and kind, or at least funny. I recommend meditation, or a pet, or volunteer work with the elderly.

    Why did you choose to call it "warrior elite"? Do you agree with Heinlein's view of a martial society?
    Nah, I was just riffing on your very silly first post.
  10. Rivington is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/11/2011 4:38pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Who is this William J. Bennett you're talking about and why?
    Why? Great question. If I had to guess, it's because Mav doesn't actually read all that widely.
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