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  1. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:05am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    I was not clear about what I meant by "basketball", I did not mean playing a five on five game in a regulation court with uniforms and referees. I meant to relate the word basketball to the physical activity of throwing a ball into a basket. I'm sorry if I was not very clear about that.
    Oh, come on. I acknowledge that you were unclear, but that's a rather pointless aside, eh? If you were to walk onto a playground and interview the folks playing basketball and basketball like games and said, "So, why are you out here today?" do you think any of them would say, "I am here to put a ball in a basket"? If you do, you're wrong. If you don't...then why bring it up?



    I think I have demonstrated quite a bit of good faith considering your tone towards me in this discussion.
    Your good faith fails on logos—you started the conversation by complaining about dilettantes, but it took a few page for you to admit that you too are a dilettante. You also cited a deeply rhetorically flawed essay. Your initial set of questions were all limned with a distaste for people you seemed to find inadequate and unworthy of practicing martial arts—while implicitly building yourself up as someone who is pursuing martial arts for the right reasons and with the right pain-loving mentality—in a number of ways. If that's what's really on your mind, you should expect a little snark now and then. It's called taking the adolescent down a peg, and it's extremely important to keep society going.

    Are you saying that martial arts training will not increase my capabilities to hold a person back?
    Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Do you practice holding people back? Is that the fighting scenario you drill, or play out in tournaments? What if there are two people—there are often two or more people, you know. What if the one guy has a knife; would you want to hold him? What are you actually training? I thought it was TKD and BJJ (or something? I remember the vid of your super-fast knockout). Are those arts training you to do what is essentially bodyguard work...and to do it once!

    let's say I'm 23 years old and I've had 18 years of strip mall shotokan karate.
    Well in that case, you probably wasted your life if your goal is to sacrifice yourself while your family flees to safety. I mean, you'd get the first part right; the second part is the doozy. Though if your goal was "have fun, lose some weight, get more flexible, maybe someday manage to kick a mugger in the balls and then run" you would be fairly well-prepared.
  2. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:08am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Name one statement I, just me, have typed on this board or any other that has been to discredit or discriminate someone based on anything. Your age gives me a reference to use as a basis for analogy and a way to frame my discussion. Add to that a lot of your responses are not of someone with 18 years of MA training. Unless you are playing devil's advocate I would tend to believe you are no older than 28.

    A reluctance to even say older than 25 but less than 35 says something.

    If we were face to face I could see that and continue accordingly.

    Plus training as an 8 year old is not the same as a 16 year old.

    Again you are not seeing the purpose of physical activity. You are hung up on the outcome of the race and not the path you take. What percentage of people in the US play professional basketball? <1%. So why should the rest of us play basketball? If I do not get paid to play it then it is a worthless activity so I should give it up? When your friends call you on the weekend to go play a pickup game what do you say? Nope, it will not help me win a fight so I do not play it.

    Funny because we would sometimes take a break from training and go play basketball because it help with hand eye coordination, foot work, and was a good form of exercise plus it took the mind of the sometimes frustration of training. The true purpose of basketball just like modern martial arts training is the exactly the same.

    When I practice uchimata I practice to get better at uchimata. I look at every repetition as getting one step closer to being able to perform the technique without effort or forethought. To move myself and my opponent around in space and execute a technique that will be better than the previous one.

    Through every failure I learn more about the technique and myself hoping to one day reach a level of proficiency that will allow me to expand to other techniques. Through this training I am reminded that it is not about how many times I mess up but by how many times I do it right to reduce the amount of failures. When I am succeeding more than failing I know I am working on the right path.

    Now I take this mindset into my "regular" life and I can approach a problem with a solution that may fail but with the confidence that I will learn from that effort and correct it to make the next approach a better and more concentrated effort. Instead of worrying about being right and looking bad I am more concerned with producing an outcome and learning from the experience than being right.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  3. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:18am

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     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    This thread needs more Aliveness:

    This one seems on point.
    Matt Thornton, Why We Train
    (Warning pretty loud SBG ape growl at beginning of vid...)
    Last edited by ChenPengFi; 5/12/2011 11:23am at .
  4. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:27am

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Again you are not seeing the purpose of physical activity. You are hung up on the outcome of the race and not the path you take. What percentage of people in the US play professional basketball? <1%. So why should the rest of us play basketball? If I do not get paid to play it then it is a worthless activity so I should give it up? When your friends call you on the weekend to go play a pickup game what do you say? Nope, it will not help me win a fight so I do not play it.
    To me, this was probably the most enlightening paragraph I've read in this thread. You know, besides every I've said, because that's pretty much gold. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    When I practice uchimata I practice to get better at uchimata. I look at every repetition as getting one step closer to being able to perform the technique without effort or forethought. To move myself and my opponent around in space and execute a technique that will be better than the previous one.
    This! This right here gets to the core I think. Why do you want to make your uchi mata better? What's the ultimate goal of a better uchi mata? And it appears that the goal of training an uchi mata is training the uchi mata. Art for art's sake.

    This has been a really interesting post to read.

    As an aside Coach Josh, it is difficult, at least for me, to do discussions on the internet as my hands don't convey what I want to say very well. But your insight is very helpful and I appreciate it.
    Last edited by MaverickZ; 5/12/2011 11:45am at .
  5. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:28am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    Could you add a bit more analysis please?
    Gimme some time. I'm a slow typer in English.

    BRB
  6. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:52am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    Now we're getting to the root of the matter aren't we.
    Yup. Your adolescent claims and chest-beating led to a funny thread. The solution: think before posting. Thinking aloud on the Internet will always disappoint you.

    Or, you know, continue to be a child and use complaints about snark to keep from thinking about the issues that have been brought up here time and again. Many of us are posting for the benefit of third parties anyway.
  7. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:56am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Yup. Your adolescent claims and chest-beating led to a funny thread. The solution: think before posting. Thinking aloud on the Internet will always disappoint you.

    Or, you know, continue to be a child and use complaints about snark to keep from thinking about the issues that have been brought up here time and again. Many of us are posting for the benefit of third parties anyway.
    A wise man once said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Through every failure I learn more about the technique and myself hoping to one day reach a level of proficiency that will allow me to expand to other techniques. Through this training I am reminded that it is not about how many times I mess up but by how many times I do it right to reduce the amount of failures. When I am succeeding more than failing I know I am working on the right path.
  8. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 12:05pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are failures that lead to success—say failures under proper training, or failures that are built upon prior successes.

    Then there are just failures.
  9. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 12:06pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    There are failures that lead to success—say failures under proper training, or failures that are built upon prior successes.

    Then there are just failures.
    Ok, you can have the last insult.
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 12:10pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Toughen up, buddy. You're not even being insulted. It's just that you presented an argument that was both self-aggrandizing and full of logical and rhetorical holes, and several people spent two days talking to you about it anyway. And you decided that martial arts aren't for everyone because most people don't love pain, so they're just idiot sheep to be herded and protected?

    Grown-up discussions aren't for everyone either, by that measure.
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