Help Me out Here: MACP = Not battlefield effective?

**Bad Apple** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 1:51pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Naw this won't work. There are many stories, even on this website, of Karate, Aikido, Kung Fu and other arts being trained and used supposedly effectively by LEOs. Let's not forget the millions of seminars boasting JKD, Wing Chun and ninjitsu. Moreso, IMO, than MMA.

Oh and stop arguing with the deadly, it is the Kobayashi Maru of the internet.

I was thinking more along the lines of both of these guy sit down and watch just about any episode of "COPS" and try to ID any particular MA techniques. You see a great deal of judo and freestyle wrestling rather than "grab my wrist" stuff.

**kelvis** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 3:16pm

Good post Coach Josh. I always wished that the Army would have introduced H2H on a regular basis. I believed that with consistent training and good contact, it might have been actually useful to some degree. At least it would've provided the physical contact between people that would have made us feel less intimidated to fight as a whole. Despite the whole Airborne hooyah mentality most paratroopers have, I know/knew a lot that would hesitate to even wrestle around. I think it's a mental security more than physical. Insights?

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 3:45pm

Insights. Well its just human nature not some great epiphany. If it hurts we don't want to do it. If it will embarrass me I will not do it. If I can fail at it I am not going to do it. Which is shitty considering they have joined the military but they are just that human. They have the same frailties as the rest of us. Do not think that going through basic training will make you any different. It will only highlight your qualities.

I hate to us myself as an example but here is my story of boot camp in the Marine Corps. I was 17 when I joined before my senior year of high school. I weighed 125lbs at 5'10". My friends laughed when I told them. They thought it was foolish and I would well die in boot camp. I was scared nervous and drunk when I got to boot camp. I kept my mouth shut did what I was told and talked only when I was spoken to.

After 1st phase I was still in the middle of the platoon. During 2nd phase at Penelton(sp) I was asked why a situation was fucked up. I told my Drill Instructor that our squad leader was a **** up and because of his decisions we were a cluster ****. I became squad leader and then platoon guide right up until 3 weeks before graduation.

I was called in the duty hut and asked what my rank would be after graduation. I told them I enlisted for 6 years and would be a PFC. I was going to be an avionics tech. which required 5 and 6 got you a meritorious promotion. So I got fired and they gave it to the 4th squad leader. So a week later they pull me back in the duty hut and tell me I am going to be a Lance Corporal because they opened 8 slots for our class. I thought I would be able to walk out with my blues but sadly they keep the other guy.

Now my success in the military was from doing what I was told and being ahead of the game by knowing what needed to be done before being told. These traits were instilled into me from an early age by my family and in that stressful environment the years of my mom riding my ass paid off. I was able to be 1 of 8 guys who graduated boot camp in the summer of 89 as a LCPL out of 668 recruits. 2nd Battalion Hotel Co Platoon 2043.

Because of that success I was able to do many good things in my life even after being badly injured due to me stupidity. The military just brought out the things in me that I needed to succeed in life. If they were not in there to begin with they could not have come out.

So point being if you were a coward before boot camp you will still be one after just not as much. If your a leader you will be one after only better. It will just amplify the good and lower the bad traits that the military wants you to have. After training and when they get to the field or fleet they will revert back to their old ways if the do not continually train to amplify the good work basic has done for them.

Martial arts does that for many of us it helps us to continually train in the aspects that made us successful in life. Persistence, honor, loyalty and humility, you only pick this one up latter in life.

Joining the military does not automatically make you a bad ass or a tough sob you were that before you joined. Martial arts training is exactly the same. People simply fear the unknown or do not want to get hurt.

**NaplesBJJ** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 4:33pm

Don't waste your time. People who do the job and actually train... get it. People who dress up in camo, collect army field manuals and troll the internet MA boards... usually don't and never will.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 4:55pm

Originally Posted by Bad Apple

You see a great deal of judo and freestyle wrestling rather than "grab my wrist" stuff.

We all see what we want to see. Let's be real, if we deconstructed a "COPS" episode I could refute any so called "sport style" with a similar "deadly style" technique.

**crappler** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 5:24pm

I thought you guys usually just shot people.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 10:08pm

I'm still confused about the OP in the thread linked from here. This guy knows he's going to be given X assignment but thinks it's his responsibility to go out in the civilian world and procure training for that assignment on his own? That doesn't sound like any military I have ever heard of.

**wetware** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 10:35pm

Originally Posted by MrGalt

I'm still confused about the OP in the thread linked from here. This guy knows he's going to be given X assignment but thinks it's his responsibility to go out in the civilian world and procure training for that assignment on his own? That doesn't sound like any military I have ever heard of.

Most units aside from combat arms don't fire a weapon but once or twice a year, even if you're in a role that will likely see combat without technically being combat arms. So you go to the range on your dime.

Military hand to hand has gotten better, but it's also not exactly the bee's knees, either. So you go out and you spend your money.

Your unit's PT program may also be a POS, if you bring it to leadership's attention they will likely tell you that the PT program is made to maintain your current fitness level, not improve it. You will then be advised to go to the gym after duty hours if you want to improve.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 10:47pm

Originally Posted by wetware

Most units aside from combat arms don't fire a weapon but once or twice a year, even if you're in a role that will likely see combat without technically being combat arms. So you go to the range on your dime.

Military hand to hand has gotten better, but it's also not exactly the bee's knees, either. So you go out and you spend your money.

Your unit's PT program may also be a POS, if you bring it to leadership's attention they will likely tell you that the PT program is made to maintain your current fitness level, not improve it. You will then be advised to go to the gym after duty hours if you want to improve.

Wow, so they're going to make someone a prison guard without any initial training in how to do that? I get that they're not going to turn you into an underwear model on the government's dime, but this whole dilemma seems far-fetched. This sounds less like getting insufficient range time and more like having to go on 4chan and ask /k/ which way the bullets go in the clip.

**BrassMan** · Posted On: 5/10/2011 12:27pm

Originally Posted by MrGalt

Wow, so they're going to make someone a prison guard without any initial training in how to do that? I get that they're not going to turn you into an underwear model on the government's dime, but this whole dilemma seems far-fetched. This sounds less like getting insufficient range time and more like having to go on 4chan and ask /k/ which way the bullets go in the clip.

It would certainly help explain the Abu Ghraib furore. ;)

It's not like everyone in the forces is on the front line. Six support staff per front line soldier is the figure that sticks in my head, although could easily be a lot higher than that. What it is today will depend on how you define front line.