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  1. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 2:12pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I "got" tai otoshi recently. One of my coaches, a tai otoshi specialist, even said my uchikomi was pretty.

    It's hard to explain. I finally got the basic motion and foot work down, and then I started to feel the weight transfer from the slide of the extended leg and then I started to generate significant power from the drop and the twist of the torso. I can now get everything to happen together at the same time.

    I've been working on the throw steadily for least a year and half--at least 10-20 static uchikomi in every practice-- with steady corrections. I finally feel like I somewhat understand the basic lapel-and-sleeve version of the throw. Hard, hard throw.

    Of course, the other night my instructor proceeded to demonstrate tai otoshi in virtually any direction from little more than an end of sleeve grip. Maybe in 20 years I'll be able to do that.
    You are doing good, I finally "got it" after 28 or so years. I still can't throw people around with it in randori, but I do actually know how to do the throw correctly now.

    Also, LOL at 10-20 static uchikomi. I hope you were doing dynamic and nage komi.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 2:26pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    You are doing good, I finally "got it" after 28 or so years. I still can't throw people around with it in randori, but I do actually know how to do the throw correctly now.

    Also, LOL at 10-20 static uchikomi. I hope you were doing dynamic and nage komi.

    Ben
    We're fortunate to have a guy with a world-class tai otoshi -- he's in his 50s but still throws the young competitive black belts with it. He teaches it frequently and has worked with me on the throw. Massive difference between him coaching it and one of the non-specialist blackbelts.

    At least static uchi komi and solo uchikomi at home. We tend to have large classes relative to the size of our mat. Sometimes the only practice on the throws I'm really working on is in static uchikomi, or slightly moving uchikomi. Often, though, we do moving uchikomi down the mat with a final nagekomi of throws of our choice.
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 3:14pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've been working on Tai otoshi for the best part of a year now. Interesting I've done pretty much all of it with moving nagekomi. Previously I've learnt all my throws with static uchikomi.

    I've barely done 20 static Tai otoshi uchikomi, because it puts too much stress on my dodgy shoulder, but moving uchikomi doesn't.

    Starting to throw people with big Tai otoshi now, but its still got a long way to go before its anywhere near the throwing consistency of my O soto and O uchi.
  4. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 4:00am

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     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    do you have any suggestions for hitting this throw off of an over- or underhook? or do you recommend using this exclusively from the lapel/sleeve grip?
    If you're going to try it no-gi, look at a very deep under-hook, even going as far as reaching up with the other hand and getting a Gable grip behind the trapezius. With the deep under-hook, your shoulder almost into their armpit & the other hand reaching up over and securing the under-hooking arm's hand, it should allow for the turn for at least the 50/50 stance (& you may have to push & bully them to get the 50/50), probably not the 70/30. I can't really visualize that deep of footwork with that committed under-hook holding you to that side of uke's torso.
    I'll try to mess with it and see what I come up with
    (tomorrow is the no-gi grappling class at my Judo school)
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 3:36pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    If you're going to try it no-gi, look at a very deep under-hook, even going as far as reaching up with the other hand and getting a Gable grip behind the trapezius. With the deep under-hook, your shoulder almost into their armpit & the other hand reaching up over and securing the under-hooking arm's hand, it should allow for the turn for at least the 50/50 stance (& you may have to push & bully them to get the 50/50), probably not the 70/30. I can't really visualize that deep of footwork with that committed under-hook holding you to that side of uke's torso.
    I'll try to mess with it and see what I come up with
    (tomorrow is the no-gi grappling class at my Judo school)
    I'll be interested to see how it works out for you. I imagine that from a deep underhook you will have too much body contact to do a real Tai Otoshi.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 5:01pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeh it basically turns into a sort of bastard Koshi waza although a few guys in the UFC and WEC have produced Tai otoshis without turning it into a Koshi waza.
  7. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2011 11:04am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Yeh it basically turns into a sort of bastard Koshi waza although a few guys in the UFC and WEC have produced Tai otoshis without turning it into a Koshi waza.
    I think I saw one over on JF that Glorfindel posted. It was not a super deep underhook, though.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2011 11:38am


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Apropos of nothing, I hit a lighting fast, picture-perfect tai otoshi -- all hands -- on Friday against one of the senior brown belts. It was by far the best tai otoshi I've ever done. Tortoises are fast compared to me. (Coach: Did you do that? Me: I don't believe it either). Like all of my best throws, it was over before I thought about it.

    In retrospect, I had a distinct feeling of punching/pushing uke's lapel across his chest with the tsurite hand. It's something one of my instructors emphasizes but I've never really quite gotten. I also managed to get complete rotation of my body.
  9. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2011 6:08pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Apropos of nothing, I hit a lighting fast, picture-perfect tai otoshi -- all hands -- on Friday against one of the senior brown belts. It was by far the best tai otoshi I've ever done. Tortoises are fast compared to me. (Coach: Did you do that? Me: I don't believe it either). Like all of my best throws, it was over before I thought about it.

    In retrospect, I had a distinct feeling of punching/pushing uke's lapel across his chest with the tsurite hand. It's something one of my instructors emphasizes but I've never really quite gotten. I also managed to get complete rotation of my body.
    Good for you! I spent years worrying about the hikite when the real problem was with the tsurite.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. realjanuary is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2011 8:46am


     Style: Aikido, bits of jits

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    *judo noob with question about angle of foot that uke is thrown over*

    I've been told by non-judoka that tori should be careful of the angle of their foot that uke goes over. They say that it should be pointing a little towards your other foot and the heal raised intead of pointing straight ahead. The rationale being that if you get it wrong and uke collapses on your leg your knee will bend to the floor instead of being ripped to pieces.
    I've seen the foot angled this was in very low tai otoshi's but not so much in higher ones.

    I've a feeling this may be one of those things where "just do all the important things right at the beginning and this is a non-issue" is the answer.
    Can you help me out while I wait to meet my judo instructor again?

    Thanks
    Last edited by realjanuary; 9/06/2011 8:49am at . Reason: typos
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