USA, 2011: Thor

**Snake Plissken** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 10:59am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Unbreakble was, for me, one of the more original and unconventional stories. It took typical superhero convention and turned it on its ear.

True.
It wasn't burdened by preconceptions of source material and was able to create its own mythos without fanboys bemoaning any changes.

If Rafe wants to use the Phantom and Spirit and Shadow style crime-noir stories, I would suggest Darkman as being closer to the bill.

What about things like Ghost World, Crumb, American Splendor? Non-superhero comic movies.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:01am

Yes, Darkman was close as well. The only problem was it reminded me of a re-imagined Swamp Thing.

Haven't seen those three. I just recently got back into arthouse/indie films.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:08am

Originally Posted by Snake Plissken

That makes sense and I will buy that explanation: The Millerverse.

People forget that it was FM that introduced an entire generation to Ninja cool with the Hand. Before DD #168 I had only vaguely heard of Ninjas (as a variant thief class in D&D). I did see Miller drawing Elektra fighting some Hand ninja in late 1980 (He draws her starting at the tip of her Sai LOL) but didn't even recognize them as such because that was before I even had an archetype to associate with what a ninja should look like yet(!) No Hand = No ninjas in GI joe = no ninja craze (= no Ashida Kim, etc)

While I always liked the Daredevil stories that had Kingpin, Punisher, Bullseye....he always did seem to be on his own little island, with only the occasional visit from Spidey.

Although it was before Miller's run, Black Widow was practically Robin to DD's Batman when I was in grade school. Why they associated her with the Iron Man movies escapes me (ouside of her first appearence being in TIIM)

**Snake Plissken** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:11am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Yes, Darkman was close as well. The only problem was it reminded me of a re-imagined Swamp Thing.

Haven't seen Man-Thing, though I doubt I'll miss anything cuz I did see both Swamp Things.

Haven't seen those three. I just recently got back into arthouse/indie films.

Ghost World is great. Granted, it has awesome hipster-chick eyecandy in the embodiment of Scarlett and Zora. Steve Buscemi has a nice role and is supercreepy, as always.

Paul Giamatti does a nice job of Harvey Pekar, whom I only really knew through his Letterman appearances. His acting is kinda suffocating, in as much as the guy is just such a neurotic ball of failure, you just want to stop the movie, turn it off, go outside and get some sun on your face and fresh air in your lungs and thank whomever that you aren't him.

Crumb, I am sure is *good* but it was just too much of a mess for me. I couldn't finish it. It kinda skeeved me out cuz he's just such a creep.

**Snake Plissken** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:13am

Originally Posted by Matt Phillips

People forget that it was FM that introduced an entire generation to Ninja cool with the Hand. Before DD #168 I had only vaguely heard of Ninjas (as a variant thief class in D&D). I did see Miller drawing Elektra fighting some Hand ninja in late 1980 (He draws her starting at the tip of her Sai LOL) but didn't even recognize them as such because that was before I even had an archetype to associate with what a ninja should look like yet(!) No Hand = No ninjas in GI joe = no ninja craze (= no Ashida Kim, etc)

Frank Miller is to blame for Ashida Kim.
Get a rope.

Although it was before Miller's run, Black Widow was practically Robin to DD's Batman when I was in grade school. Why they associated her with the Iron Man movies escapes me (ouside of her first appearence being in TIIM)

because she was banging Tony Stark in the Ultimates series, which is essentially the framework for Marvel's movie vision.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:20am

Originally Posted by Matt Phillips

Although it was before Miller's run, Black Widow was practically Robin to DD's Batman when I was in grade school. Why they associated her with the Iron Man movies escapes me (ouside of her first appearence being in TIIM)

There were two popular Universes in Marvel. The Ultimates and the one you are talking about.

Since the build up to the Avengers movie they have been mixing elements of both into the movies. In the newer Universe, which is completely separate from the original, BW is part of the Avengers which are called the Ultimates.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:22am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

We will disagree as those weren't unconventional as that is their source material. You may have been surprised because, maybe you don't know the genre. I'd argue those were a product of their times. They followed the Raiders of the Lost Arc and Romancing the Stone framework IMO.

You follow the source material and cater to your market. Alienate you fan base and it is hard to get funding. That's why all comic book movies have "easter eggs" hidden regardless of company.

I can see what you mean now, and I think you are right. All those stories are fairly modelled after the same premise, and so they ought to be the same. The only point where we might disagree is the respective quality of the movies.
For me personally, most superhero movies - although quite true to their source - were pretty lame, the first two Spiderman, and probably Batman Begins being the only two exceptions.

Ang Lee's Hulk would have been more to my taste, but it was too long to be effecttive, as far as I am concerned.

Now, comic book movies, or movies adapted from graphic novels...

Originally Posted by Snake Plissken

Non-superhero comic movies.

That would be a completely different thing in my opinion, since superhero tales are indeed mostly formulaic.

There, we've had some of the great gems of the decade, IMO. :)

RED was extremely funny. 300, well, was 300. Wanted, which had really nothing to do with the source, was also very entertaining.

But the second Hulk, or the third Spidey? Or, Wolverine? DO NOT WANT.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:26am

Second Hulk was the correct Hulk like IMO. Ang Lee's hulk was to expository and long for my tatses.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:32am

Yeah, there we agree - I got to say, as a kid, Hulk was my hero;
or better, I was the hell afraid of him.

The 2nd Hulk could be so much better, though. I got myself the DVD, and just all the stuff they cut out because the movie was regarded too long: Such a waste of good material.

There is a scene, in the beginning, where Bruce tries to kill himself in Antarctica.

Waah, how good would the movie possibly had been if they had tried that arc?!

**Snake Plissken** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 11:36am

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

That would be a completely different thing in my opinion, since superhero tales are indeed mostly formulaic.

It was more an exercise to show how comic book movies, of any genre, will for the most part follow the source material pretty darn closely.

RED was extremely funny.

It was, but to be honest, I liked The Losers, better.

Wanted, which had really nothing to do with the source, was also very entertaining.

I had only read one issue of Wanted, so I can't compare, but I really like the director of Wanted.
I cannot wait for Abe Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.

But the second Hulk, or the third Spidey? Or, Wolverine? DO NOT WANT.

Truth be told, I liked the second Hulk much much more than the first Hulk and it is kinda pissing me off how they keep changing Hulks like they did Batman back in the '90s.
Wolverine and Spidey 3, taken at face value of popcorn flicks did the job. I am willing and able to pick parts from those films for enjoyment:
Thomas Hayden Church's Sandman
Ryan Reynold's Wade Wilson
Liev Schrieber's Sabertooth
Gambit

Were they to the par of a Sin City or 300? Not at all, but not terrible, either.