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  1. jellyman is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 11:59am


     Style: systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You (all of you) really ought to read the 2nd article.
  2. garbanzo is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have gone back and read the second article, which is not exactly clear.

    Let me ask a very specific question.

    Consider this clip:
    http://www.systemauk.com/video/cammk1.mpg

    In it we see "sparring" which is slowed down considerably.

    In it we also see instances in which contact is almost made with the guys face, and he falls
    down or rolls backward.

    Here's the question: what is going in these instances and what it is supposed to demonstrate?
    The vast Universe!
    The Way of Aiki to to become
    The light of all mankind
    Opening all the world

    --O Sensei

    :gaygay:
  3. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Haven't you seen Dune? That's what happens when your heart plug gets pulled out.
  4. garbanzo is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me ask another, very specific question.

    Consinder this clip.

    http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...hlight=systema

    In the second half, entitled "Beyond the Physical", the fat guy looks at people but doesn't
    touch them. They fall down.

    What is going on in this instance, and what it this supposed to be demonstrating?
    The vast Universe!
    The Way of Aiki to to become
    The light of all mankind
    Opening all the world

    --O Sensei

    :gaygay:
  5. RobP is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:29pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Consider this clip:
    http://www.systemauk.com/video/cammk1.mpg"

    That's easy to answer - it's me in the clip. First off it isn't sparring - and isn't labelled as such on the site. It says: "For this workshop Mikhail focused mostly on movement and positioning skills. The following clips show some of his work. His partner is feeding a line of attack and Mikhail demonstrates the correct positioning to escape and counter"


    The punch where I roll back out of it made contact. That's why I rolled back out of it. In fact the inside of mouth was bruised for a week or so. The body hits were going in. The other hits to the face Mikhail is stopping short. I should have rolled out or move away - you see how I stop instead and my balance is broken. I think the 3rd time he actually hit me to teach me to move away better.

    "Beyond the Physical...What is going on in this instance, and what it this supposed to be demonstrating?"

    What isn't clear from the article about this clip?
    Last edited by RobP; 3/17/2004 1:32pm at .
  6. Furtry is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:31pm


     Style: c

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by garbanzo
    I have gone back and read the second article, which is not exactly clear.

    Let me ask a very specific question.

    Consider this clip:
    http://www.systemauk.com/video/cammk1.mpg

    In it we see "sparring" which is slowed down considerably.

    In it we also see instances in which contact is almost made with the guys face, and he falls
    down or rolls backward.

    Here's the question: what is going in these instances and what it is supposed to demonstrate?
    Looked to me like Mikhail paused to explain something then clipped Rob on the jaw. Rob rolled to make a graceful exit instead of falling on his ass. Contact was made every time, slowly mind you so no teeth go missing, as it is a demo.
    Lesson is that if you catch the rite moment little effort is needed to knock a person over. The K1 clip on the front of this page has great moments when a shoot connected at the rite time knocked the opponent over. The shot wasn't a KO but the guy did go to ground, got back up and kept going. But the point is to hit at the rite time in the rite place.
    Last edited by Furtry; 3/17/2004 1:36pm at .
  7. garbanzo is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by RobP

    "Beyond the Physical...What is going on in this instance, and what it this supposed to be demonstrating?"

    What isn't clear from the article about this clip? [/B]
    Nothing is clear to me. That's why I am asking for an explanation.
    The vast Universe!
    The Way of Aiki to to become
    The light of all mankind
    Opening all the world

    --O Sensei

    :gaygay:
  8. RobP is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:36pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "On BTP Mikhail Ryabko quite clearly states that all the work presented is purely psychological. The tape explains how presenting a barrier or implied threat can affect another person's movement. The work on the tape is shown in the form of progressive drills, starting with light contact against a partner's balance points and working up to no-touch. Confusion arises when people see clips of someone just "waving their hands" and people around him falling over. The falling is a response to broken movement or loss of balance and is seen as one alternative to "freezing" on the spot, not always the best response to a possible threat. In other words the falling is to escape, not to make the teacher look good."

    "Firstly there is the “flinch response”, or the simple desire to get out of the way of something. This works by the simple fact that sometimes the body will move “by itself” to avoid pain or damage. A similar example might be if someone suddenly throws something to you - most times you will go to catch it. These are in-built responses that are very difficult to overcome. So one aspect of no-contact training is to take advantage of those responses - a dummy attack to get the guy to drop his hands, or a low “stop kick” on someone moving on at speed to make him pull his leg back would be simple examples. This can be worked up to a more subtle level - slightly dropping a shoulder, even using your eyes (I've used looking over a persons shoulder and nodding to good effect - most times people will turn and look)."
  9. garbanzo is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by RobP
    "Consider this clip:
    http://www.systemauk.com/video/cammk1.mpg"

    That's easy to answer - it's me in the clip. First off it isn't sparring - and isn't labelled as such on the site. It says: "For this workshop Mikhail focused mostly on movement and positioning skills. The following clips show some of his work. His partner is feeding a line of attack and Mikhail demonstrates the correct positioning to escape and counter"


    The punch where I roll back out of it made contact. That's why I rolled back out of it. In fact the inside of mouth was bruised for a week or so. The body hits were going in. The other hits to the face Mikhail is stopping short. I should have rolled out or move away - you see how I stop instead and my balance is broken. I think the 3rd time he actually hit me to teach me to move away better.
    Here is how I interpret it.

    You throw a telegraphed, ineffectual kick in slow motion with your guard down.

    The instructor responds by moving faster than you, finding the very wide opening, and making contact, again, by moving faster than you.

    You respond by falling to the ground and rolling as an evasive maneuver.
    The vast Universe!
    The Way of Aiki to to become
    The light of all mankind
    Opening all the world

    --O Sensei

    :gaygay:
  10. Furtry is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2004 1:42pm


     Style: c

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That clip is about evasion drills. There is an explanation on my site along with the clip.
    I'll post clips of the same drill done when Mikhail is swinging a sword or a whip. People look like little trained poodles but it does beat getting whipped or cut.
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