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  1. BumFu is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2005 10:37pm


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Not saying don't try systema

    Quote Originally Posted by boyrobot
    Wow ... thanks! You just tripled my level of skepticism, and possibly saved me some cash as I was seriously considering a trip to Toronto to investigate.
    Didn't mean to discourage you from checking it out; just be ready for a bit of hocus pocus-- like in aikido. Enough people have gone up and tussled with Vlad to say he can fight, the question is against what level opponent and how well he can teach others to fight. I need to say that during the debates here a lot systema guys were nothing but gentlemen-- no insults/threats.

    The reputation of systema will always be mixed as long as their highlight clips show Vlad kicking the gun out of an assailants hand when the gun is near the small of his back, or any of the other ridiculous moves.
    Last edited by BumFu; 5/12/2005 12:38pm at .
  2. Matt Stone is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2005 5:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, CMA, & more

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by boyrobot
    1. Last I heard, Furtry and GaiusCaesar were going to have a showdown at the NW Throwdown -- wh'appened? Did it go down? (and if so, was Systema ever vindicated?)
    Nope, nothing ended up happening. GC hasn't been active (that I've seen) on Bullshido in quite some time, and he hasn't attended the last few Throwdowns. Not sure why, but I'm sure he has his reasons.

    2. Are there any "positive experiences" with Systema from people who have NOT had any training in it? Like to hear from some other stylists who have encountered it (or think they have) in the field or in the ring.
    After seeing what Brian King had to show of his practice, I've recently started attending classes. I'll admit that some of the material goes against the grain of traditional training methods, but when you stop yourself from judging and allow the training to occur (consequently letting it lead you to some interesting observations), it is pretty intriguing.

    Perhaps the main things I've gotten from my whopping TWO classes thus far are that I have WAY too much tension in my body when I move, my breathing tends to shorten and go shallow at the wrong times, and I need to let my body do what it has been trained to do over the last two decades rather than fight it and let my mind run the show... Could I have gotten that in my regular classes/training? Sure. But every once in a while I think it is a really good idea to step out of your regular boundaries, get UNcomfortable somewhere, and see what happens... That's why I've done the things I've done over the years, and I have always come out the better for the experience.

    Pseudo-mysticism aside (I have yet to hear anything of the sort from Brian, either through correspondence, Throwdown, or my whopping TWO classes), I think their drills can be real eye-openers when they are used as intended (drills to open your perception to possibilities) and not misrepresented as things they aren't.

    Just my 2 cents.
  3. jellyman is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:31am


     Style: systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The reputation of systema will always be mixed as long as their highlight clips show Vlad kicking the gun out of an assailants hand when the gun is near the small of his back, or any of the other ridiculous moves.
    Merely a demonstratiopn of his consummate skill. Unlike most TMA, nobody is required to copy the master. These clips are to show how good one can become, a demonstration of possibilities.

    That said, there are a couple of more 'meat and potatoes' type systema - class footage of stuff you'll see in most every class, stuff that everyone tries to do, foundational excercises that people use to develop core skills. I notice that they seem much more accessible to people, so check them out:


    low-res striking video:
    http://www.russianmartialart.com/cat...ikes%20vv1.wmv

    high-res striking video:
    http://www.russianmartialart.com/cat...rikes%20vv.wmv

    low-res wrestling vid:
    http://www.russianmartialart.com/cat...20D.F.%201.wmv

    high-res wrestling vid:
    http://www.russianmartialart.com/cat...ing%20D.F..wmv

    Not that I expect any miracles from this, but this is an honest reflection of what we do.
  4. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:35am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any clips of people using systems in an actual fight?
  5. jellyman is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 10:18am


     Style: systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any clips of people using systems in an actual fight?
    What do you call a fight?

    Some people say wrestling is a fight

    Some people say hitting each other is a fight

    Some people it's only a fight if you do both

    some people say it's only a fight if you do it in a ring

    some people say it's only a fight if you do it on "the street"

    some people say it's only a fight if both parties are injured

    Do sport BJJ guys fight when they grapple? Or is grappling not fighting? Is that true for wrestling, judo and Sambo as well? Are those arts now McDojo?

    The first clip shows everyone grappling, and at one point one guy gets armbarred. Is it not a fight because they don't make stinky poo-faces and there's laughter afterwards?

    The second clip shows a general slug fest. Is it not a fight because it's more than one person?

    I rarely see a clip of anyone holding a real fight, depending on what you call a real fight. Muy Thai guys never throw or sub, so it cannot be a real fight. MMA guys wear pads and take a break every few minuites, plus they hug each other. This cannot be a real fight.

    We tend not to hate each other in class. I would think this is the same for most schools except cobra-kai.

    We tend not to carry video-cams with us everywhere on "the street".

    What do you call a fight, and can you show me one?

    I saw a kungfu guy slug somebody on a clip with a big lantern punch, so I guess that's a real fight.
  6. jellyman is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 10:19am


     Style: systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No actual comment on the training.

    Do you feel grappling a resisting opponent is unrealistic training?

    Or only when it's certain schools doing it?
  7. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 10:27am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I really like those striking drills.
  8. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 11:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jellyman
    What do you call a fight?

    Some people say wrestling is a fight

    Some people say hitting each other is a fight

    Some people it's only a fight if you do both

    some people say it's only a fight if you do it in a ring

    some people say it's only a fight if you do it on "the street"

    some people say it's only a fight if both parties are injured

    Do sport BJJ guys fight when they grapple? Or is grappling not fighting? Is that true for wrestling, judo and Sambo as well? Are those arts now McDojo?

    The first clip shows everyone grappling, and at one point one guy gets armbarred. Is it not a fight because they don't make stinky poo-faces and there's laughter afterwards?

    The second clip shows a general slug fest. Is it not a fight because it's more than one person?

    I rarely see a clip of anyone holding a real fight, depending on what you call a real fight. Muy Thai guys never throw or sub, so it cannot be a real fight. MMA guys wear pads and take a break every few minuites, plus they hug each other. This cannot be a real fight.

    We tend not to hate each other in class. I would think this is the same for most schools except cobra-kai.

    We tend not to carry video-cams with us everywhere on "the street".

    What do you call a fight, and can you show me one?

    I saw a kungfu guy slug somebody on a clip with a big lantern punch, so I guess that's a real fight.


    I didn't realise I had to make so explicit.

    Any clips of a systema practioner fighting someone who is trying to be the living **** out of him and NOT drilling ?
  9. sui generis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 1:15pm


     Style: PersonalDefenseReadiness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    Any clips of a systema practioner fighting someone who is trying to be the living **** out of him and NOT drilling ?
    no way !
    in fact it has been the major excuse on all german boards for all those hyper-realistic training clips, that what you see is just drills and not fighting...
  10. jellyman is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 1:23pm


     Style: systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any clips of a systema practioner fighting someone who is trying to be the living **** out of him and NOT drilling ?
    So you think Furtry armbarring that guy was part of a drill? Like everyone got together and said - okay, you turtle, and then I'll armbar you etc. then we'll switch?

    'nuff said. That's sparring, niothing was prearranged.

    Although, I suppose, from one point of view, sparring is a drill. I supopse a bunch of guys slugging each other is a drill.

    But that means there is no fighting in many MA club, it's all just sparring.

    Last week 2 guys from outside the club came ito Vlad's and tried to bushwack some systema guys by trying to hurt them during a footwork drill. We actualy thought they were a couple kids who'd read too many bullshido threads and snapped. They did get handily and painfully ganked, but this is not something we want to encourage as normal ("come to systema, we will hammer the **** out of you" is not the world's best sell).

    I take it in your school everyone hates each other and tries to cause injury?

    You must have an impressive attrition rate. Do you have clips of people getting injured on purpose while training in your school? If not your school, any BJJ., Judo, Sambo, wrestling, or TKD school will do.

    There is some police camera footage on the strategos site, or there was. But I don't htink you'd like these, since the systema guy didn't get hurt, and the others were subdued pretty quickly.

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