going into collegiate wrestling, best to just forget submission grappling?

[Ashkuff]

(Great choke. Great way to get pinned, also.)

So, I guess I'll open up my very first Bullshido post with a quick story about how I got my arse kicked.

Pretty much, I've been conducting ethnographic research on "ground fighter" identity for a while. While I've mainly conducted this research in the context of MMA-esque submission grappling, I recently decided to hit up a collegiate wrestling practice. I tried to translate some of my submission grappling skills, and it didn't go very well. Like, at all. For more on that, check out, http://ashkuff.com/akaBlog/?p=4868. (P.S. Leave a comment over there, dammit. Even stupid comments look good to my sponsors. LOL.)

Obviously, this was my mistake. In ethnographic anthropology, we're encouraged to disregard all prior knowledge and assumptions when studying a new culture. We're supposed to approach it like a very young child. So, ACADEMICALLY speaking, trying to adapt techniques was a bad idea.

So here's what I wanted to ask. ATHLETICALLY speaking, should a submission grappler approach collegiate wrestling as a blank slate? Or should he try to adapt moves? Or something else altogether?

--- Ashkuff | http://www.ashkuff.com | How to venture out of “armchair” scholarship, and into action? One anthropologist tackles occultism, violence, and more! He gets spooked and roughed up a lot.

[COLLINDEFLEUR]

Is this your'e first time wrestling ever? Do you have any prior experience in wrestling at all?

[wetware]

Is this your'e first time wrestling ever? Do you have any prior experience in wrestling at all?

Did you read the OP at all?

[COLLINDEFLEUR]

Ya. I'm just wondering if he did anything in highschool or juniour high.

[COLLINDEFLEUR]

So here's what I wanted to ask. ATHLETICALLY speaking, should a submission grappler approach collegiate wrestling as a blank slate? Or should he try to adapt moves? Or something else altogether?

For the most part. I'd suggest approaching wrestling as a blank state.

Look at the end goals of both sports. Submission grappling is about submitting your'e opponent where as folkstyle (collegiate), greco, free style wrestling is about racking up points through pins, escapes, reversals, rides, takedowns and near falls. The moves in each sport will reflect this.

In submission wrestling you would never purposefully give your'e opponent your'e back- where you totally would in freestyle so you could perform an escape or a reversal. And in submission wrestling you would never flip onto your'e stomach to escape as you would br introduced to a rear naked choke pretty quickly.
Approach it as a blank state. Alot of the moves you learned are going to get you owned in wrestling. BUT. Don't let that discouarage you. As many of the movements, especially stuff regarding your'e hips, are going to "feel" more natural with a grappling background.

I, personally, found the movements in wrestling alot more straight forward then they were in BJJ and fairly easy to pick up. I'd imagine with a grappling background you probably will feel the same way too.

The first thing to do would be to drill and get comfortable in some of the basic movements. Get comfortable in the stance, learn how to move your'e feet properly, learn how to pentrate and level change properly, learn how to tie up and hand fight properly, learn the proper down stance, how to properly come up to that down stance if you are ever caught flat on your'e stomach, how to hip heist and how to follow the down man.
Once you get a feel for the very basic movements then move onto some of the very basic moves.

My coach says as a rule of a thumb you want to learn and master 2 to 3 takedowns, pinning combinations, escapes and reversals. Do that. Don't try to equip your'e arsenal with dozens of moves you don't know well. Because when you go to wrestle in practice and pull a firemans carry your'e not quite sure how to finish or try force nelson someone and end up pulling them into your'e near side as opposed to pushing away on it you'l feel like a retard. Knowing two moves well is better then knowing twenty poorly.

A good place to get started would be to talk to the coach and find a training partner. I don't know what the coach at your'e school is like but it may be difficult to get his attention if you are a beginner. At the college level coaches are usually preoccipied with the guys that are really good and won't pay any attention to the noobs. I'm actually pretty surprised you were even allowed to practice with them without any kind of wrestling background.

If he won't give you any time find someone who will. Whether it's a wrestling class at local mma club or even a guy from the team (preferably a freind).

You could always use the interwebs too. A great website is www.wrestlingcoach.com
And fineally, to quote something I saw on here, STFU AND TRAIN!!!

[DdlR]

As a general rule, prior grappling experience will be useful athletically, kinesthetically etc. but the tactics and (some) techniques of sub. wrestling and collegiate wrestling are obviously very different. The athletic/kinesthetic cross-over will be obvious and I'd expect it to be pretty much taken for granted. Pragmatically, if you focus more on the kinesthetics and less on the techniques - "more on the movement, less on the moves" - you'll probably be in the best place to make the transition between styles comfortably.

[MGM]

Ashkuff, are you doing purely observational work or you also working with a testable and or observeable hypothesis? FWIW, I got my Bachelors in Anthropology back in the day. I look forward to hearing more about anthropological insights into grappling and wrestling.