Cheers for that. And a local option for me also. As for my mate in Auckland, he's real. Not a case of "I know this guy...lets call him my 'friend'...he's"
He found the original link through this site (sigh).
Who are you to post this kind of response on my teacher-he is legitimate.You would appear to be a KENDO and Judo exponnent only.
As for NZKF link you provided,it is legitimate and G Sayer is at the top but he has no manners in the way he bullied his way into that position from my teacher-Mr A J Crawford,the previous IKF rep and basically the founder of the New Zealand Kendo Federation.He only held British and Japanese Nidan grades but started Kendo in Auckland and all the other schools(only 3 at the time) were started by his students.
Mr G Sayer never trained Kendo or Iaido in NZ but learnt directly in Japan(the best way possible if you have the opportunity).He attained 4th Dan,returned to NZ as the highest rank in the country and demanded everything be handed to him as he was the highest ranked at the time.VERY RUDE WAY OF DOING THINGS.
His Kendo is only "school" kendo and as such is highly sport orientated where you "hit" someone on the head and get a point.The style taught by Mr Crawford was old school with depth to it.Kendo is a killing art of swords and not a sport.Kendo without "sport kendo" is still kendo but "sport kendo" without the "real" traditional sword knowledge and history is nothing more than men(and sometimes women) in skirts and armour hitting each other for points.
Also don't make comments on other teachers whom you have not meet and experrienced first hand.
Are you really a Canadian or just an American living in Canada.
Canadians are usually a little more polite and much more likable people than Americans
To Hexe re Te Jutsu(Ray Porter) and Sifu John Munro-Long White Cloud Kung Fu.
Sifu Munro's school is probably called "Long White Cloud" Kung Fu as New Zealand is known in Maori(the pre-european settlers of New Zealand) as Aotearoa,or in english as "land of the long white cloud".This is because we have so much dammed rain we have an ample supply of clouds and the country is long and relatively thin.
Sifu Munro has published 2 books on Kung fu and is a member of the New Zealand WuShu and Kung Fu Federation which is a member of the controlling body in China so someone very high up thinks he is "the real deal".Why would you think otherwise.
I have met this man and he exudes a gentle confidence and power that only comes from years of training.
Te Jutsu Ray Porter.
This man is my teacher and has been since late last year.His skill level is as far above us as ours is above an ant(opps-sorry you are an Australlian by your address so may be your skill level is only an par with an ant)
His style may not be as recognized as well as Shotokan or Goju systems but is just as valid.
He is also a member of a few legitimate organizations like the New Zealand WuShu and Kung Fu Association,WOMA,and he is the the New Zealand Rep for ISKA.
I invite you to our Hombu Dojo in Takanini,Auckland if you are in the area,to make up your own mind.
Don't listen to other "bozos" from other countries who judge a book by its' cover.
Look no further than your own ZenDoKai/Bob Jones Corporation and Robert Sullivans' GKR Karate-both lacking in formal ties to respected Japanese/Okinawin founders or schools but both have produced champions in Kumite and kata at international level.
Bob Jones built his little empire on his own hard earned full contact tittles and others have added other aspects to todays operation and they are both in first generation status.
Japanese Karate is only as old as 1920 when Gichin Funagoshi introduced it as a demonstration to the Emperor of Japan,so get over linneage and age and look at the art.
If you turn up look me up(John Williams).I am a lowly graded student in this system but we all must start at the bottom.
to Res Judicata,
What is " Play to play organizations" as posted in relation to my teacher and his style Te jutsu.
I see you do Judo so you do know something about "old school" but judo only have "players" now.Martial arts don't have "players" only sports have "players".
I also see you do BJJ.This backs up the sport comment above.BJJ is nothing more than a severly restricted(curriculum restriction) version of REAL Japanese JUIJUITSU invented for a very specific purpose-namely UFC style MMA fights.
Don't get me wrong,they are very good at what they do and even the Japanese recoginize them as a serious offshoot of JUIJUITSU but thats all they are.What are you????
If you really want to question my teachers legitimacy come to our Hombu Dojo in Takanini,Auckland,New Zealand.
He has his highest graded certificates on the walls for everyone to scrutinize and has others from other martial arts styles if you really must be nosy.
Apart from the certificates he has the skill in his hands and feet(and the rest of the body).
Don't judge the book by someone elses interpretation of the cover
First, calm down.
Second, we know that BJJ stands for "basically just judo." It's cool. We're all cool with that.
Third, the kenjutsu "terms" that are on the website are not real kenjutsu terms. If he's koryu, he'll have a menkyo kaiden, in which case, he'll have no problem showing it because menkyo have earned the right to show it.
I don't know about any of the other stuff, but China and Japan are just as full of hucksters as anywhere else, people willing to trade off the East Asian mystique and "verify" someone as part of the martial arts world for a fee. That's why we're asking for certificates from recognized organizations like the Zen Nippon Kendo Renmei, or the Nihon Kobudo Renmei, or one of the big koryu arts organizations in Japan. I'm less familiar with Chinese martial arts so I don't know what the big certification groups are for CMA, but we've plenty of CMAers around here that know and can verify it.
Still, nonsense Japanese words like "te-jutsu" give me pause. Taken literally it means "fist technique," but that's not the word that koryu martial arts use for striking techniques, which is usually atemi or atemi waza. It's most likely a portmanteau of the third syllable of karate-do and the suffix -jutsu, which is the general Japanese word for "technique," as in "iaijutsu" (drawing technique) or "kenjutsu" (sword technique).
GKR is an excellent example of an organisation held in universal contempt on these boards. Search around and see.
Originally Posted by jadekayak
Odds are, he just misspelled. He probably meant “pay to play”, as in, most of these intergalactic supersoke organisations are empty, meaningless circlejerks where no quality control ever occurs and membership may be as difficult as opening your own school and claiming you’re the head of a style, no questions asked, just pay the fee.
Originally Posted by jadekayak
(They do sometimes have legitimate martial artists as members. Sometimes, they do this by giving these people memberships without being asked, or even letting them know.)
Martial arts that are also sports are the best martial arts.
Martial arts don't have "players" only sports have "players".
Actually, te jutsu means "hand technique" - just making the distinction between 'ken' which means fist (different kanji to the ken used for sword). It does indeed look like a made up word.
Originally Posted by Lane
First, if you use the "reply with quote" people will have some idea of what you are responding to. Secondly, there is only one style of international kendo, and that's the one with the heavy sports component. Anyone trying to tell you that their kendo is the "real kendo" and that the FIK style is wrong is just selling you a bill of goods.
Originally Posted by jadekayak
Finally, I have no first-hand knowledge of NZ kendo politics but I sense you are getting a very distorted view of it. There have been people well above nidan in NZ for at least 20 years. I know this because I met and played with several kiwis on a visit to Australia in the mid-90s. Another personal connection is Liz Dutton, who I met in England and who moved to NZ 10 years ago and started Hutt dojo. She was godan at the time (still is). Graham Sayer has been practicing kendo for about 34 years now and is rokudan. At any rate any number of NZ kendo people post to Kendo World, including Alex Bennett who is 7 dan and the publisher of the magazine, and his brother Blake who coaches the NZ squad. So either your story is very old and sour grapes from decades ago or just wrong. Actually on second thought if this happened at the start of the NZKF, 30 years ago, then a Japanese trained yondan absolutely should be running the show over a British-trained nidan. UK kendo has come a long way in 30 years, back then ... not so much.
Last edited by NeilG; 9/10/2011 10:12am at .
Hello Neil G
Firstly I should have used "reply with quote",I'm not to computer or social network savvy as I spend most of my time in the dojo or at work.
You are correct about high grades in Kendo being in NZ for a long time and yes there is a certian amount of "sour grapes" about the way Mr Sayer took over,not his grades or what he has done for Kendo in general in NZ.
I started Kendo in 1984 and the split up of my club had already happened and Mr Sayer had already tried to take control of the NZKF.
Mr Crawford set up the NZKF(you obviously didn't read all of what I posted as Mr Crawford holds a Japanese Nidan as well) and trained nearly everyone in Auckland at the time.
Just because someone holds a higher grade does not mean that they can come into that club or organisation at demend leadership by right of grade.
Yes Mr Sayer is 6th Dan now,a credit to his efforts.
As for styles of Kendo the IKF publiclly states that there is only "one" Kendo and "practices" many styles within that framework they have developed.
School Kendo is the lowest form as it deals with mostly kids(that's why its at schools),then various other levels depending on the club you are at(try the Japanese Police Kendo school-reputed as one of the toughest styles out and still IKF kENDO)
You can still hit someone on the head and score a point but the attitude you have behind the technique i.e. actually cutting through the head and living is different.
You don't bounce around like a poofter flicking the shinai like a fly fishing rod for points-the rules clearly state that the CUT MUST BE MADE WITH INTENT AND FOCUS AND MUST LAND FIRST AND IN THE CORRECT TARGET AREA TO SCORE.This is still sport but has the subtle difference in it that makes it a martial art.
I also noted that you "met and played with several kiwis on a visit to Australia in the mid-90s".I take it you practised with them and engaged in kumite.This is what I mentioned above about "players"-sports play,martial arts fight or compete not play
Lastly there are an abundant number of high DAN grades in NZ now(in all manner of arts).
When I started out in 1984 Shodan was very high with a few Nidans.Any higher was rather unusuall unless you trained directly in Japan/Okinawa or a northern hemisphere country with a longer history of training than here.
One of the highest Karate people at the time was Dennis May at 4th Dan and he is well above that now.
I have recently restarted my unarmed/peasant martial arts and I fully expect to be able to reach 3rd Dan without having to leave NZ to do so(as long as my body can sustain that level of hardship as I am now 45)
Martial arts that are also sports are the best martial arts.[/QUOTE]
Yes I agree in as much as the art will survive but the sport side and the traditional sides are kept seperate and very distinct
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