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  1. jadekayak is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 8:19am


     Style: te jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=Prince Vlad;2603672]Shorinji Kenpo - this is a semi religious Japanese martial art based on Shaolin Kungfu. Shorinji is the Japanese pronunciation or kunyomi of the set of kanji used for Shaolin... this makes sense to Japanese people.

    Thanks for that,great explanation on the terms/kanji.
    I won't be learning written Japanese as Im having enough trouble with my spoken Thai.
    Written Thai is hard enough and they have a fixed alphabet so Chinese and Japanese is way out of my time allowance.

    Ill do another search on "tejutsu" and Okinawin styles and see what I can find this time.

    Im on the last page of replys then I can study Dave's link.

    looks prommising
  2. jadekayak is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 9:32am


     Style: te jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi again Dave.

    It would seem that you are being unusuakky friendly towards me for some reason.Thanks.

    I dont have a ryuha,I never said I did and in fact said that right from the start.My teacher also never stated his style was or is a ryuha or from Koryu lineage.
    The unarmed and armed components come from different sources-nothing wrong with that.
    I couldnt agree with your first 4 lines any more than you do.

    I have been training swords for more than 25 years,not all of it formal.I started in 1984 when I left school,left home,and moved to the big smoke and got an apprentiship.
    Im sure your foundation is far better than mine but that does not diminish my ability to pick crap from good.(checkout haidong gumdo-korean kenjutsu and see what YOU think).
    I am still learning and will be to the day I die.

    The 3 major cutting styles I have learnt.
    1 full extension sweeping cuts made with the whole body,not just
    the arms,like Seitei gata.good for armour and bone cutting.Cuts
    can stop dead or be continued in an arc
    2 less extension and sweeping motion but not much body
    movement.good for bone cuts or closer fighting in more
    confined spaces.
    3 closer in cutting with more emphasis on wrist movement than
    whole body cutting.Mostly for flesh cuts like thigh.bicep,gut or
    neck targets.mostly unarmoured targets.

    Sorry I don't know the technical terms for these cuts.They do mimic the same philosophy for european(western) sabre which is simmillar in application to Katana/tachi

    If you think that using shinken for pre arranged partner forms or kata is "sheer fucking stupidity" then you are not as good as your experience and training suggests.
    We are not doing jukekio or shiai but pre arranged forms and they are never done full power and speed.They are done more like standard Iai practice.I am not doing this with this teacher but have done it with the first 5 IKF Kendo Katana no Gata years ago.
    When I learn his forms I will have no hesitation doing so with shinken with "HIM" but so far no one else but me takes a serious interest in the swordwork.
    Toshiro Obata has vids on youtube with shinken partner forms-most are bokken/bukkuto.I am no Obata but you don't need to be the master to do so.
    I have seen MJER shinken partner forms and other kenjutsu vids also have them.

    What is "Toshin".I don't know what that is.I have never seen Kendo kata performed with Iaito,only boken or shinken.
    Good on your cousin,that is a great achievement,but just because he or they don't use shinken doesn't mean that some do and do it well.
    Some Kendoka don't even do kata even though it is a requirement for the gradings.It is mostly a sport of armour and shinai and your cousin will be able to confirm this.

    Being in Japan it is harder to get your hands on shinken as a special license is required first and apparently it is reasonably hard to get.

    I cant recall the last statement but I think you meant risking my life(I don't have the comments open here and don't know how to go back without loosing all this).

    I would never train shinken or Iaito partner drills with someone I had never trained with regardless of thier grades,especially Kendoka because they have a generaly a poor skillset with shinken/Iaito.
    Some Jujutsu and Aikido schools develope shinken skills better at lower levels than IKF Kendo.
    I would also want to see solo kata first to assess control before I would even walk NEAR them then train extensively with them on thoose kata with bokken first untill the kata is ingrained in both of us(the same kata performed by a different pair has a different dynamic and has a different risk even if both are expert in that kata individually).

    If Aikidoka of say 3rd Dan are demonstrating a paticular waza they will all be able to do the waza passibly but the pair that train that waza for demonstration purposes will perform perfectly and will inspire greater reactions from the crowd and that is what a demonstration is about.

    The bottom line is bokken are dangerous but generally not lethal if an accident does occur.
    Shinken and to a certian extent Iaito(depending on the quality) are lethal in more serious slipups and maiming in less serious slipups.

    A point to demonstrate this is one of my Iaido instructors poked his sword through his arm in kata 4 in Seitei gata.this kata is performed from Iai Hiza with a butt thrust to the face of opponet/foward,the rear foot is swung 90 degrees out of the way to the rear,the sayer is slid off the blade and then the blade is thrust back into an opponent to the rear,twisted up and cut up through this opponent then cut down through the front opponent.
    He did not pay attention,did not move the leg and thrust through his left arm.

    I have never even cut myself when using a sword, only when making knifes and swords and usually on the grinder not the blade.


    Yes I wish I could have studied the MJER full time but money is a big problem and the system I am in at the moment is mostly unarmed and karate-ish with bo,jo,tonfa,and ken included.
    I had to make a choice and this one is better for my overall health and will get my unarmed skills up to a good level in a few years.
    It is not a koryu as it is okinawin in nature.
    It does not claim to be at all and I only got on here to reply to assholes making derogatory claims about my teacher by nothing more than a website they have viewed from around the world and never meet the guy.

    Ive done that and made a few fucked up comments in the process but so have so called experts like fereze or whatever its name is.
    It even argues with reputed organizations posted web pages then screws up the Yoshin ryu lineage by saying it is not Samurai based and the lineage goes back to Shingake ryu-one of the most respected Koryu in Japan-how fucked up is that.

    Ive said my piece so I will read the information you kindly provided.
    I at least follow up.

    Thanks
  3. jadekayak is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 9:45am


     Style: te jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Vlad View Post
    Absolutely correct, with all of the talk of 'te-jutsu' I completely forgot about the Japanese word 'shujutsu' which is made up from the same two kanji. Shu being another reading of the kanji for hand - shujutsu meaning surgery/operation.

    try the following link and foward to the last page,clearly provides lnj between G. Funagoshi and te-jutsu through to te jutsu.


    http://www.amazon.com/te-Jitsu-Gichi.../dp/0920129226
  4. Prince Vlad is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 10:11am


     Style: BJJ n stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Couldn't find that page but I guarantee you 100% that means surgery. Not only do I remember writing it many times in college and even discussing it with a doctor over there following a shoulder injury but you can find it in the online translator below.

    http://japanese.reader.bz/

    tejutsu comes up as unknown in that Japanese dictionary whereas shujutsu is a hit. Also, shujutsu is a very commonly used word in the Japanese language.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 10:13am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jadekayak View Post
    Hi again Dave.

    It would seem that you are being unusuakky friendly towards me for some reason.Thanks.

    I dont have a ryuha,I never said I did and in fact said that right from the start.My teacher also never stated his style was or is a ryuha or from Koryu lineage.
    The unarmed and armed components come from different sources-nothing wrong with that.
    I couldnt agree with your first 4 lines any more than you do.

    I have been training swords for more than 25 years,not all of it formal.I started in 1984 when I left school,left home,and moved to the big smoke and got an apprentiship.
    Im sure your foundation is far better than mine but that does not diminish my ability to pick crap from good.(checkout haidong gumdo-korean kenjutsu and see what YOU think).
    I am still learning and will be to the day I die.

    The 3 major cutting styles I have learnt.
    1 full extension sweeping cuts made with the whole body,not just
    the arms,like Seitei gata.good for armour and bone cutting.Cuts
    can stop dead or be continued in an arc
    2 less extension and sweeping motion but not much body
    movement.good for bone cuts or closer fighting in more
    confined spaces.
    3 closer in cutting with more emphasis on wrist movement than
    whole body cutting.Mostly for flesh cuts like thigh.bicep,gut or
    neck targets.mostly unarmoured targets.

    Sorry I don't know the technical terms for these cuts.They do mimic the same philosophy for european(western) sabre which is simmillar in application to Katana/tachi

    If you think that using shinken for pre arranged partner forms or kata is "sheer fucking stupidity" then you are not as good as your experience and training suggests.
    We are not doing jukekio or shiai but pre arranged forms and they are never done full power and speed.They are done more like standard Iai practice.I am not doing this with this teacher but have done it with the first 5 IKF Kendo Katana no Gata years ago.
    When I learn his forms I will have no hesitation doing so with shinken with "HIM" but so far no one else but me takes a serious interest in the swordwork.
    Toshiro Obata has vids on youtube with shinken partner forms-most are bokken/bukkuto.I am no Obata but you don't need to be the master to do so.
    I have seen MJER shinken partner forms and other kenjutsu vids also have them.

    What is "Toshin".I don't know what that is.I have never seen Kendo kata performed with Iaito,only boken or shinken.
    Good on your cousin,that is a great achievement,but just because he or they don't use shinken doesn't mean that some do and do it well.
    Some Kendoka don't even do kata even though it is a requirement for the gradings.It is mostly a sport of armour and shinai and your cousin will be able to confirm this.

    Being in Japan it is harder to get your hands on shinken as a special license is required first and apparently it is reasonably hard to get.

    I cant recall the last statement but I think you meant risking my life(I don't have the comments open here and don't know how to go back without loosing all this).

    I would never train shinken or Iaito partner drills with someone I had never trained with regardless of thier grades,especially Kendoka because they have a generaly a poor skillset with shinken/Iaito.
    Some Jujutsu and Aikido schools develope shinken skills better at lower levels than IKF Kendo.
    I would also want to see solo kata first to assess control before I would even walk NEAR them then train extensively with them on thoose kata with bokken first untill the kata is ingrained in both of us(the same kata performed by a different pair has a different dynamic and has a different risk even if both are expert in that kata individually).

    If Aikidoka of say 3rd Dan are demonstrating a paticular waza they will all be able to do the waza passibly but the pair that train that waza for demonstration purposes will perform perfectly and will inspire greater reactions from the crowd and that is what a demonstration is about.

    The bottom line is bokken are dangerous but generally not lethal if an accident does occur.
    Shinken and to a certian extent Iaito(depending on the quality) are lethal in more serious slipups and maiming in less serious slipups.

    A point to demonstrate this is one of my Iaido instructors poked his sword through his arm in kata 4 in Seitei gata.this kata is performed from Iai Hiza with a butt thrust to the face of opponet/foward,the rear foot is swung 90 degrees out of the way to the rear,the sayer is slid off the blade and then the blade is thrust back into an opponent to the rear,twisted up and cut up through this opponent then cut down through the front opponent.
    He did not pay attention,did not move the leg and thrust through his left arm.

    I have never even cut myself when using a sword, only when making knifes and swords and usually on the grinder not the blade.


    Yes I wish I could have studied the MJER full time but money is a big problem and the system I am in at the moment is mostly unarmed and karate-ish with bo,jo,tonfa,and ken included.
    I had to make a choice and this one is better for my overall health and will get my unarmed skills up to a good level in a few years.
    It is not a koryu as it is okinawin in nature.
    It does not claim to be at all and I only got on here to reply to assholes making derogatory claims about my teacher by nothing more than a website they have viewed from around the world and never meet the guy.

    Ive done that and made a few fucked up comments in the process but so have so called experts like fereze or whatever its name is.
    It even argues with reputed organizations posted web pages then screws up the Yoshin ryu lineage by saying it is not Samurai based and the lineage goes back to Shingake ryu-one of the most respected Koryu in Japan-how fucked up is that.

    Ive said my piece so I will read the information you kindly provided.
    I at least follow up.

    Thanks
    So, let me get this right. You don't know the name of your style, the cuts you performed, the history of your art, never trained in Japan, and are obviously a book trained beginner and you are going to lecture people who have studied decades?

    Your teacher never told you the history of your art. You are a beginner. No, I don't care about your appeal to time spent.

    You are a dipshit. You have multiple people, with multiple decades of experience, telling you that you are wrong and all you can say is "Your experience is terrible?"

    Get the **** out of here you whiny bitch.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 10:17am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    haidong gumdo-
    Uhmm You might want to research that as well. You fail in talking about two arts.
  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 10:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jadekayak View Post
    try the following link and foward to the last page,clearly provides lnj between G. Funagoshi and te-jutsu through to te jutsu.


    http://www.amazon.com/te-Jitsu-Gichi.../dp/0920129226
    http://blackandteal.com/files/2011/0...2453844351.jpg

    Let me guess you haven't read the book have you. This is a crappy reproduction of KARATEJUTSU which I own. Please cite which page Funakoshi uses TE JUTSU as a MA by itself.

    And since it is obvious you are not smart enough to find out by yourself, and recognize the fact it was brought up earlier, 唐手術 can be pronounced TO TE JUTSU or KARA TE JUTSU. Funakoshi changed the first kanji from KARA (唐) to KARA (空).
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. jadekayak is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 10:23am


     Style: te jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    @ Jadekayak: you are one of those guys who has read half a history book, understood less of it, and then tries to lecture other people on it. One of the kind of people that, when I meet them in real life, would love to strangle.

    Please, share more of your wisdom with us, as I enjoy the public whipping you are receiving here so intensely.
    comming from someone who practices Ashihara karate I find your comments laughable.your style is a breakaway of a breakaway.
    You have no real lineage to boast about and you are not from a ryuha or koryu.You even have some of the worst in fighting in karate circles in the world.

    You do have some top people(like Mark Stewart in Panmure) the same as kyokushinkai do and your founder is at least Japanese but a little reminder.

    Japanese does not = legitimate any more than not Japanese=illigetimate.

    Is this enough informed wisdom for you?

    to me it means little but to most on this thread it does so I guess it does to you.
    At least some of the other practitioners are from Koryu
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 10:30am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jadekayak View Post
    comming from someone who practices Ashihara karate I find your comments laughable.your style is a breakaway of a breakaway.
    You have no real lineage to boast about and you are not from a ryuha or koryu.You even have some of the worst in fighting in karate circles in the world.

    You do have some top people(like Mark Stewart in Panmure) the same as kyokushinkai do and your founder is at least Japanese but a little reminder.

    Japanese does not = legitimate any more than not Japanese=illigetimate.

    Is this enough informed wisdom for you?

    to me it means little but to most on this thread it does so I guess it does to you.
    At least some of the other practitioners are from Koryu
    Says the guy that doesn't know his own lineage. You need to stop picking at styles and research your own asshattery.
  10. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2011 10:34am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Vlad View Post
    Couldn't find that page but I guarantee you 100% that means surgery. Not only do I remember writing it many times in college and even discussing it with a doctor over there following a shoulder injury but you can find it in the online translator below.

    http://japanese.reader.bz/

    tejutsu comes up as unknown in that Japanese dictionary whereas shujutsu is a hit. Also, shujutsu is a very commonly used word in the Japanese language.
    He doesn't understand how the Japanese language works and its causing him to reach and make erroneous assumptions. What is funny is he is too dim to realize I GAVE him a way to check it out himself. If he wanted to prove that TE-JUTSU was used as a MA by itself he could have done a search using the kanji I provided earlier.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh

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