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  1. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 4:55pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by kikoolol View Post
    It's been a cause of trouble for about every forward throw and is one of multiple reasons why I utterly fail at them. My lower body is genetically quite weak. I'm just not that bendy, and believe me, I tried.
    If you have not gotten it by now, you do not have to do a deep squat to do seoi nage unless you regularly try to throw midgets, even then there are other more applicable throws.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 4:56pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Kosoto is not really a good throw. While yes it can work I find it more useful as a setup technique or a follow up technique. Kososto to nidan kosoto or deashi to nidan is really good.

    As far as making it work better as an initial attack pretty much is dependent on kuzushi as with all throws.




    Confusing competition between 2 high level Judoka and proper technique is a common mistake. This is were people have problems LEARNING Judo because they think that they have to do stuff like elite players.
    Great post, I agree except for the part about Kosoto GAri not being a good throw. I do agree about the applications you mention, though, I've been teaching those for the last 3 weeks.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 5:03pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    As this is turning into a discussion of seoi nage, here is the secret to seoi nage.

    Uke is drawn to tori, tori does not go to uke during kuzushi and tsukuri (which are really not distingishable in a practical sense).

    Keep that in mind when performing all forward throws in their "canonical" or fundamental forms. Which is what 99% of us should be doing in the first place, myself included.

    I've done seoi nage in most forms for 25+ years as a tokui waza, and I still don't do "Koga" seoi nage. Everyone post video of you seoi nage and let's see how many make the fundamental error that I note above. If so, drill until you burn that out of your system, then you might want to attempt Koga's version. But if you drill the basics that much, you will probably be pretty happy with your seoi nage in randori and shiai.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 5:48pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Great post, I agree except for the part about Kosoto GAri not being a good throw. I do agree about the applications you mention, though, I've been teaching those for the last 3 weeks.

    Ben
    I've only thrown someone with Ko soto gari once, but I've got loads of people with Nidan ko soto gari in combos or on its own, awesome throw.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    As this is turning into a discussion of seoi nage, here is the secret to seoi nage.

    Uke is drawn to tori, tori does not go to uke during kuzushi and tsukuri (which are really not distingishable in a practical sense).

    Keep that in mind when performing all forward throws in their "canonical" or fundamental forms. Which is what 99% of us should be doing in the first place, myself included.

    I've done seoi nage in most forms for 25+ years as a tokui waza, and I still don't do "Koga" seoi nage. Everyone post video of you seoi nage and let's see how many make the fundamental error that I note above. If so, drill until you burn that out of your system, then you might want to attempt Koga's version. But if you drill the basics that much, you will probably be pretty happy with your seoi nage in randori and shiai.

    Ben
    Its because 'we' teach static seoi nage with a backwards pivot. I find that people really struggle to practice static seoi nage with a forwards pivot, it requires a very good uke. One of the many advantages of moving uchikomi is that you can drill the forwards pivot relatively easily.
  5. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 7:49pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Pure awesome.
  6. kikoolol is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2011 10:09am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    If you have not gotten it by now, you do not have to do a deep squat to do seoi nage unless you regularly try to throw midgets, even then there are other more applicable throws.

    Ben
    Oh, I get it. I just don't know how to express myself. One of the plights of being ESL.
    Last edited by kikoolol; 5/06/2011 10:13am at .
  7. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/06/2011 11:23am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    I've only thrown someone with Ko soto gari once, but I've got loads of people with Nidan ko soto gari in combos or on its own, awesome throw.


    Its because 'we' teach static seoi nage with a backwards pivot. I find that people really struggle to practice static seoi nage with a forwards pivot, it requires a very good uke. One of the many advantages of moving uchikomi is that you can drill the forwards pivot relatively easily.
    j

    I used to use Kosoto Gari a lot more than I do now, but I'm making a comeback with it due to teaching it lately. I had forgotten how much I liked the throw. I also do Nidan Kosoto (which is Kosoto Gari anyway). On the common combinations such as Hiza Guruma/Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi to ashi barai, Kosoto Gari works well and is often easier to do.

    Agree about the tai sabaki in Seoi Nage. Many,Many forward throws are taught statically or with the forward pivot and result in basically lifting uke then thowing (O Goshi and Seoi Nage are too worst offenders). I teach back turn tai sabaki first, then apply it to O Goshi and Seoi Nage, it works well, and trains tori to draw uke to him instead of going to uke. This works well also because the most basic debana is uke moving forward/pushing.

    Ben
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