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  1. kikoolol is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2011 9:51pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Combinations into and out of kosoto-gake

    Alright this is going to sound really fucking dumb but I've had a major epiphany in the last weeks and I discovered two throws I can pull off really, really well in randori : clamp-style osoto-gari and tsurite-side kosoto-gake.

    In the weeks before that despite being ikkyu I was never really successful in randori or shiai because of my attempts to harness major forward throws that never really worked out for me. I could maybe get a troll uchi-mata on sankyu and lower but randori against my equals was always entirely based on either dumb luck or my getting a counter in which taught me to play really passively. Only now am I shaking off this habit and learning to be aggressive because I have techniques I can have faith in.

    I stole the clamp osoto from my coach who is really, really good at it (it also helps we have similar physical builds, strengths and weaknesses). Basically I take an ippon-seoi-nage grip without attempting to turn, bounce up and down so uke expects seoi-nage but instead I go for osoto-gari (only danger being matte'd for non-standard gripping). If he defends that I can go for seoi-nage, or quickly switch my grip (might be difficult) and go for osoto-makikomi. If he learns to expect osoto-gari then I can go directly for seoi-nage. If uke defends that I can go for ko-uchi-makikomi. I have my combination blueprint pretty filled for this one.

    And now I have my tsurite-side kosoto-gake. Problem is, I have a good direct entry into it (it's the throw that taught me to T up), but a pretty **** gameplan hovering around it. Basically it's kind of like Russian roulette : either I T up, hook the leg, keep contact and it works wonderfully, or opponent sees the direct entry coming and blocks/twists me down/counters me. In other words I have no way to disguise it or react to a defense.

    Not wishing to become an entirely predictable two-tricks-pony, I would enjoy if people who have similar success with kosoto-gake gave me some ideas for combos that start off with it and end with it.

    I am not currently in my usual weight class due to insane weight gain from injury, so I can't hang with the big guys when it comes to strength, conditioning or even cardio. However, I think I would have a lot to gain by learning to disguise or react appropriately on defense to my second main throw. So some help on kosoto-gake combos would be very appreciated and trained the hell out.
  2. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 1:56pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So you are talking Kosoto Gake in a ai yotsu situation? That does require some serious t-ing up!

    If they step back off of the Kosoto Gake, you can switch to a forward throw. But you dont have a forward throw, so you are SOL I guess.

    Depending on the exact reaction from uke, you should be able to do some more ashi waza perhaps.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 2:05pm

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     Style: Judo

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    How proficient are you at O soto gari from sleeve and lapel? I.e is the technique smooth and fluid in uchikomi and nagekomi, do you throw with it in randori?

    How proficient are you at Ippon seoi nage? I.e is the technique smooth and fluid in uchikomi and nagekomi, do you throw with it in randori?

    How proficient are you at Ko uchi makikomi? I.e is the technique smooth and fluid in uchikomi and nagekomi, do you throw with it in randori?

    Are you doing Ko soto gake or are you doing Hug-hook-flop-nage?
  4. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 3:33pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd say if he was smooth and fluent, he wouldn't be asking those questions. Anybody relies on the clamp style Ippon Seoi has given up on being smooth and fluent.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. kikoolol is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 5:15pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    How proficient are you at O soto gari from sleeve and lapel? I.e is the technique smooth and fluid in uchikomi and nagekomi, do you throw with it in randori?
    Yes and yes. I just like the clamp style, but if I can't get the grip for x reason I can throw with lapel/sleeve osoto-gari no problem.

    How proficient are you at Ippon seoi nage? I.e is the technique smooth and fluid in uchikomi and nagekomi, do you throw with it in randori?
    Okayish and not really. I can't throw hikite-side. I can throw tsurite-side if lady luck permits it. I have a lot of difficulty with forward throws.

    How proficient are you at Ko uchi makikomi? I.e is the technique smooth and fluid in uchikomi and nagekomi, do you throw with it in randori?
    Yes and rarely directly on its own.

    Are you doing Ko soto gake or are you doing Hug-hook-flop-nage?
    My coaches would dismember me if they caught me doing the bear hug variation.

    I'd say if he was smooth and fluent, he wouldn't be asking those questions. Anybody relies on the clamp style Ippon Seoi has given up on being smooth and fluent.
    I've been doing judo for, I'm pretty sure 4 years (I'm bad with time) and during all this time renraku-waza uchikomi/nagekomi, and sadly, even randori were rare occurrences. The latter got much better recently but not the former. Hence, I both lack ideas and lack smooth transitions.

    I'd compare my training to trying to learn English by repeating "bath, bath, bath, bath x100" then "shower, shower, shower, shower x100" over and over, without really practicing syntax or actively building sentences. I have a pretty staccato rhythm to my combinations because of this. Taken alone, my uchikomi (as I answered earlier) looks OK. Get me speaking and while individual words sound OK, the rhythm is all wrong.

    Hence why I'm shopping around now that I recovered my passport and can prove my affiliation. >_> For now, I have to supplement training. I stay after class and have a "conversation class" with assistant instructors/etc.

    Much like my English (and I've been studying it for 16 years), my judo is broken and accented. But that can be fixed in time.
    Last edited by kikoolol; 5/01/2011 5:30pm at .
  6. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 5:35pm

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     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only two kosoto-gake entries that I've ever had work for myself are A) countering a tai-otoshi and B) from the Gracie-style double underhooks in an MMA situation, which I would not recommend for judo since you'll get uchimata'd.

    So I'm really no help.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 5:58pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, well if you can throw with sleeve lapel O soto I recommend you stick to it as it gives you a lot more options for combinations especially for Ko soto gake.

    If you want an example of how to throw using the 'bear hug' ko soto gake, rather than hug and flop, then Georgii Zantaraia of Ukraine is currently putting on a masterclass.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3fRVCJguCo#t=1m37s

    Throwing forward is hard, full stop. Its much easier to defend forward throws then backwards ones, hence why my crappy Judo is always backwards throws and ashiwaza, lol.
  8. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 8:38pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We were practicing using ko soto to set up forward throws the other night. It's a staple in my attack series. But usually from kenka yotsu into a forward throw. If you block that foot and use your hands correctly, he has to move that lead foot. Combination follows.
  9. Vince Tortelli is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 9:11pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    The only two kosoto-gake entries that I've ever had work for myself are A) countering a tai-otoshi and B) from the Gracie-style double underhooks in an MMA situation, which I would not recommend for judo since you'll get uchimata'd.

    So I'm really no help.
    Kosoto-(gake? Gari? Outside leg trip!) can also really blast someone if they're being lazy with hiza guruma attempts, I won gold in a judo tournament doing that.
    (He said, then cowered in fear of the imminent judo wrath about to descend upon him)
  10. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2011 10:01pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    My reading comprehension lacks sometimes.

    If you can manage to get into a sleeve and lapel Osoto Gari of whatever variation, you can attack the far leg with Kosoto Gake or Gari. Ouchi Gari to Kosoto Gake/Gari can work well also. Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi or Hiza Guruma to Kosoto Gake/Gari is another possiblility. In a right vs right situation, you can make a direct Kosoto Gake/Gari attack against the lead leg as well, depending on how well you can maneuver them. You have to be very good at keeping the weight on the leg you attack, though.

    I suggest you spend a lot of time also on one forward throw, something with a sleeve and lapel grip. You will need something to the front, otherwise you are going to get predictible. A solid forward throw to work on is Tsurikomi Goshi. If you can get that down, then your tsurikomi skill will have improved, as well as your tai sabaki for most forward throws.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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