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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So why does uke have to know anything? Doesn't he just go out there and get thrown around?

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd say there is no way you're going to help him here. When I actively studied Judo under a sensei, We started learning the Nage No Kata from basically the beginning and even at brown there is no way I could do it well enough for testing. My sensei impressed upon us the fact that it requires LOTS of practice with someone who is close to your size- not a week's worth...

  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ben, do you have any opinion on uke doing things like placing their hand on tori's hip during kata-guruma? I can understand it being justified as being safer for uke, but it seems like cheating to me.

  4. #14
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    So why does uke have to know anything? Doesn't he just go out there and get thrown around?
    No, uke does specific actions for each throw, without them, the kata doesn't work very well or at all. This is true of all Judo kata except the solo one, which really was never intended to be a kata. Of course, Goshin Jutsu was not supposed to be a kata either.

    In fact,ideally, uke is the more experienced of the pair doing the kata.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  5. #15
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Guess View Post
    Ben, do you have any opinion on uke doing things like placing their hand on tori's hip during kata-guruma? I can understand it being justified as being safer for uke, but it seems like cheating to me.
    When I first learned kata, I did not learn Kata Guruma that way. I still think it's silly, because the whole lift uke pause and throw thing is silly and unrealistic. The only way I can see it as being realistic is that it used to be ippon if you lifted uke and held him up in stuff like Daki Age and Kata Guruma. The kuruma action does not have a pause in it, and does not require a high lift.

    But, I don't have much choice now, the standard has changed. Most nage no kata now looks to me like some sort of choreographed dance.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  6. #16

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    When you say specific action do you mean like jumping for throws, or the judy chop for seioi nage etc?

  7. #17
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    CrackFox's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Uke is the one who leads the action, and has to end up in a position where the throw makes sense. When you're doing the kata, you're not supposed to do any extra actions, make any adjusting steps or anything like that. If uke isn't where he is supposed to be and tori has to compensate in some way then it all goes wrong.

  8. #18
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Then there is that circular Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi thing that is so tough to nail in kata..

    Ben

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    lol, thanks to your blog posts, I understand how you got trolled.

    Is there no way to carry over quotes within quotes?

  10. #20
    NeilG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    When I first learned kata, I did not learn Kata Guruma that way. I still think it's silly, because the whole lift uke pause and throw thing is silly and unrealistic.
    There doesn't need to be a pause there anymore, although a short one is acceptable. The hand on the back is more to make things easier for tori, same as uke being nice and stiff.
    But, I don't have much choice now, the standard has changed. Most nage no kata now looks to me like some sort of choreographed dance.
    I hear you. My partner and I have been criticized by some for being too tense - his background is shotokan, mine is kendo - neither of us can help getting our game mode on for kata.

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