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  1. #1

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    comparative similarities between bujinkan and aikido?

    as an ex-boojer I sometimes find myself wondering about the art and if it is worth me discarding everything I know or dropping it entirely. I actually went to a Bujinkan school some time ago even after a few years off the style, what i found was.

    1. Compliant training. There was a guy there who was a krav and boxer dude who did resist and shat on many of the more advanced students all the way through the class by showing their techniques weren't working.
    2. Nothing too special to differ the grappling from judo except low resistance
    3. No real pain compliance placed and no real fight finishers
    4. Many of the class seemed out of shape and throwing themselves around a bit too much, like they werent used to getting hit or thrown hard.

    Anyway, last night I found out there's an aikido place with a trial month on, and I figured 'sod it' and went to see what it was like. I saw what I expected from the posts Ive seen: gentle warm up, started with meditation (always nice, if nothing else). Lots of stepping and tenkan, projection, balance training. Sword work followed some grip work and pins. What got me interested here was that there was a lot of stuff I'd seen in my booj days with more detail on how it worked and how to make good pins. Some points from Judo crossed over with body mechanics and balance usage, which I thought was cool if nothing else. At the end of the class, there was a 'randori' session. This entailed the class getting into small groups and rushing one person, sometimes one at a time, sometimes in multitudes and in this case it was important to use strategy to throw people into each other. Seemed okay as an exercise. All in all some parts of it felt like it was reminiscent of the bujinkan in some ways, and I feel Im seeing some of the connection due to the jujitsu roots (and also in some ways, how some technical aspects cross over from Judo.

    Anyway, I was wondering what the opinions were of aikido practitioners on if there was much in the way of translatability between the two? What I saw made me think there might well be some elements of Aikido that definitely overlap

  2. #2

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    Whats the projection and balance training involve? (Sorry got curious)

    From what ive seen in bujinkan. Theres alot of stuff that has been picked from other arts. So if something has been picked, taught and taught well then you would only assume theres transferable training/techniques.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kravbizarre View Post
    Whats the projection and balance training involve? (Sorry got curious)

    From what ive seen in bujinkan. Theres alot of stuff that has been picked from other arts. So if something has been picked, taught and taught well then you would only assume theres transferable training/techniques.
    The balance part was mostly testing the stepping and tenkan under pressure, so being rushed by an attacker over and over to see if you can stay on balance while evading someone going for a straight punch instead of the usual over-head chop thing I see in every demo. Keeping going on that non-stop whilst still keeping footing and not hitting other students, so taking into account the environmental factors made it more challenging.

    The projection stuff seemed to be about some underlying principle a scrub like me might not understand fully, but it seemed (to me) to be about weight distribution and keeping your force going in particular directions without being off balance yourself and using space to get the attacker to either rush you or try to step off in a direction, then pull/push them over their own balance point. It was described to me in a sort of 'intention and focus' sort of way so I may be way off on that from a literal physical analysis. Will keep doing some reading on aikido definitions on the matter since I didnt ask exactly what the words meaning was (Ive heard it thrown around with various definitions in TMA circles so I always try to double check) but it seemed basically the same principle Ive seen in judo of 'helping them fall over'

  4. #4
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Thread moved to the proper forum, this thread is not MABS material.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  5. #5
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    I'm picturing a Venn diagram of "fake Japanese martial art from the 60s that trains compliant," and "fake Japanese martial art from the 70s that trains compliant," with "for pussies" as the intersecting set.
    "Your body must be like a stone, your mind... like a meatloaf."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    I'm picturing a Venn diagram of "fake Japanese martial art from the 60s that trains compliant," and "fake Japanese martial art from the 70s that trains compliant," with "for pussies" as the intersecting set.
    The only thing I imagine the Booj is effective at defending is ones virginity.

    "Stay back vile temptress, for I am a Ninja!"
    Last edited by Aka-Tora; 2/05/2017 11:03am at .

  7. #7
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    MY PENIS IS A POISONED CALTROP
    "Your body must be like a stone, your mind... like a meatloaf."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kravbizarre View Post
    Whats the projection and balance training involve? (Sorry got curious)

    From what ive seen in bujinkan. Theres alot of stuff that has been picked from other arts. So if something has been picked, taught and taught well then you would only assume theres transferable training/techniques.
    Lineage issues specific to the Bujinkan aside, it is possible for a specific technique to develop independently in multiple styles.

    Seeing the same technique in two different styles doesn't automatically mean that it was "borrowed" from one or the other. It could simply mean that a guy in Korea, a guy in Japan, and a guy in China all figured out that the human arm is not constructed to bend a specific way, and trying to force someone's arm to bend said way will cause pain and injury.

    If you see some version of Ippon Seio Nage in a non-japanese style, is it borrowed from Judo, which would have adopted it from traditional JJJ? It doesn't take a genius in unarmed combat to figure out that if you force your shoulder into someone's armpit, and bend at the waist while holding their arm, they will end up getting slammed to the ground.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrouchyOldMan View Post
    Lineage issues specific to the Bujinkan aside, it is possible for a specific technique to develop independently in multiple styles.

    Seeing the same technique in two different styles doesn't automatically mean that it was "borrowed" from one or the other. It could simply mean that a guy in Korea, a guy in Japan, and a guy in China all figured out that the human arm is not constructed to bend a specific way, and trying to force someone's arm to bend said way will cause pain and injury.

    If you see some version of Ippon Seio Nage in a non-japanese style, is it borrowed from Judo, which would have adopted it from traditional JJJ? It doesn't take a genius in unarmed combat to figure out that if you force your shoulder into someone's armpit, and bend at the waist while holding their arm, they will end up getting slammed to the ground.
    To be fair given Bujinkan's lineage questions and how much of it is basically japanese jujitsu, and aikido being derived from a japanese jujitsu style, I can there being cross over. Which of the two is better, well that I would love to see argued in the only way Bullshido knows how

  10. #10
    Holy Moment's Avatar
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    5. LARPing. A large part of the appeal for both arts is that you get to dress up in funny costumes, use Japanese terminology, and pretend to be wise.

    I might do a "What's Wrong with Ninjutsu?" video somewhere down the road.

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