Sirc vs. Kintanon: Lightweight Title or something Gong Sau.

**Vince Tortelli** · Posted On: 5/01/2011 10:49pm

I will explain the relevance of that video to this debate, and because you do Sambo, I will do so using short sentences, made of small words.

I say Sambo players can't pass guard as well as BJJ guys.
In response, you put up a video of Fedor vs Big Nog.
In your video, Fedor beats the crap out of Big Nog.
But he does not pass his guard.
Then I put up a video of my own.
The video is a fight between a BJJ guy and a Sambo guy.
The Sambo guy tries to pass guard.
He is then knocked cold by an upkick.
In BJJ we consider that "failing to pass guard".
Perhaps things are different in Glorious Mother Russia.

But I do admire your willingness to set an example for children. They only have to look at you to see how not blocking or slipping punches makes someone ugly and stupid.

**omoplatypus** · Posted On: 5/01/2011 10:58pm

i'd say 1 round knock down karate, 1 round straight (snicker) grapple, one round MMA.

either way, i'm in josh's corner. just imagine how quickly he will end this fight when his blue belt is infused with j00 power!!!!!!!!

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 5/01/2011 11:07pm

Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli

I will explain the relevance of that video to this debate, and because you do Sambo, I will do so using short sentences, made of small words.

I say Sambo players can't pass guard as well as BJJ guys.
In response, you put up a video of Fedor vs Big Nog.
In your video, Fedor beats the crap out of Big Nog.
But he does not pass his guard.
Then I put up a video of my own.
The video is a fight between a BJJ guy and a Sambo guy.
The Sambo guy tries to pass guard.
He is then knocked cold by an upkick.
In BJJ we consider that "failing to pass guard".
Perhaps things are different in Glorious Mother Russia.

But I do admire your willingness to set an example for children. They only have to look at you to see how not blocking or slipping punches makes someone ugly and stupid.

One, I've got about several dozen BJJ players that can tell you how well I pass guards.
Two, wasn't the point of my video.
Three, in BJJ you don't do upkicks, they are illegal.
Four, since decided to use a non BJJ technique to prove your point I did so in kind.
Lastly, meet me on the mat and watch how easily I pass your guard you impotent piece of **** and then you can come on here and spew your crap.

**Vince Tortelli** · Posted On: 5/01/2011 11:19pm

Originally Posted by Omega

One, I've got about several dozen BJJ players that can tell you how well I pass guards.
Two, wasn't the point of my video.
Three, in BJJ you don't do upkicks, they are illegal.
Four, since decided to use a non BJJ technique to prove your point I did so in kind.

Up kicks are not part of the BJJ techniques used in grappling tournaments...but they are taught in BJJ academies around the world as part of the vale tudo/self defense portion of the art. Would you say that kani basami, which is banned in judo tournaments, is a "non judo" technique?

Lastly, meet me on the mat and watch how easily I pass your guard you impotent piece of **** and then you can come on here and spew your crap.

Fair enough. It wouldn't be the first time I've taken a whuppin for being hard headed, and I doubt it would be the last (unless I manage to get you really riled up.) Although I am in Mississipi, and you are way the heck far away in California.
If I'm ever out that way?

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 5/01/2011 11:29pm

And you're stating that as a matter of fact? Wow, I'm glad you can speak for every BJJ school out there. If you want to get technical then we can go back to the fact that Oleg wasn't trying to pass the guard at the time which was your counter point on the Fedor video. Hence there can be no guard pass failure. Not only that but Vale Tudo schools and BJJ are actually not usually taught together and are usually found at odds from what I hear (Hugo Duarte, Marco ruas, Jose Landis Jon compared to BJJ such as Machado and Gracie).

So this year at the Mega, show up or shut up.

**Vince Tortelli** · Posted On: 5/01/2011 11:56pm

And you're stating that as a matter of fact? Wow, I'm glad you can speak for every BJJ school out there. If you want to get technical then we can go back to the fact that Oleg wasn't trying to pass the guard at the time which was your counter point on the Fedor video. Hence there can be no guard pass failure.

Not every BJJ school in the world, no. But in 4 years I've trained regularly at 3 different BJJ schools and every one showed an upkick from guard at some point or another.
Point for you: Watching the video with pause makes it look like Oleg was fishing for an ankle lock or heel hook, not trying to pass. So you were right about that, I was wrong.

Not only that but Vale Tudo schools and BJJ are actually not usually taught together and are usually found at odds from what I hear (Hugo Duarte, Marco ruas, Jose Landis Jon compared to BJJ such as Machado and Gracie).

I have always thought of BJJ technques being divided into three categories:
Pure Gi BJJ techniques
No Gi/MMA/Vale Tudo techniques
Street/Self Defense techniques

I was using the word "Vale Tudo" because it was what they called the contests where Helio, Carlson, and the rest fought, I didn't think about it also being what some of the other Brazilians called their style. (Similar to training in Muay Thai vs fighting under a Muay Thai ruleset) I could have said Mixed Martial Arts or No Holds Barred and been clearer I guess.

So this year at the Mega, show up or shut up.

Me making it to Cali on the 28th of May (that's the only thing I can find in the Throwdown forum) isn't happening. As I said, if I'm ever out your way, I will let you know. I'm not trying to sound like a tough guy or make some retarded threat, because, well, that would be retarded. As retarded as walking into a someone else's school and saying "Hey, I want to grapple you because I wrote on the Internet that BJJ is better than Sambo, and then you said I was a moron AND THAT HURT MY FEELINGS!"? Well....

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 5/02/2011 12:09am

I said the Mega. Labor Day weekend, East Coast. Try to keep up.

**bobyclumsyninja** · Posted On: 5/02/2011 1:09am

For Kint/Sirc, I'd love to see San Da rules.
or....has anyone posted this here yet?

p.s. @ Omega: Where on the east coast? I vote Bahstan!!?!

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 5/02/2011 8:55am

Honestly, I love Shidokan but it is un-necessarily complicated for a Gong Sau and requires rounds. Seriously, if Sirc can't defend the takedown after all his training with Omega too damn bad.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 5/02/2011 9:30am

Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja

For Kint/Sirc, I'd love to see San Da rules.
or....has anyone posted this here yet?

p.s. @ Omega: Where on the east coast? I vote Bahstan!!?!

Yes, I would like it to be in Boston. Why don't you start this?

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

Honestly, I love Shidokan but it is un-necessarily complicated for a Gong Sau and requires rounds. Seriously, if Sirc can't defend the takedown after all his training with Omega too damn bad.

The reason Shidokan was suggested was because of Kint's questioning of Sirc's Kyokushin belt. Shidokan rules would be the best platform to show that off.