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  1. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 9:44am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was a stay at home dad for two years when my son was first born. I was always twenty minutes late to class during this period because I had to wait for my wife to get home from work before I could leave for jits. Luckily for me, my instructor has always understood that family comes first.

    I really dislike missing warm ups. As you get older they become a requirement rather than an option. Since turning 40, I'm much more likely to pull or strain something during training if I don't warm up properly.
  2. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:38am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, MMA, CQB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're early, you're on-time. If you're on-time, you're late.
    Well said.
  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:41am

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fucking finally. Can I borrow this?
  4. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 2:35pm

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Warm up time in BJJ has always been an onoxious issue to me, because they don't make any sense.

    My number one complaint about warm ups is that they're always at the beginning of class, which makes no sense. The reason why you "warm up" is to get your muscles ready to go for some sort of high impact activity. In BJJ class, you warm up and get a nice sweat going... and then you do a bunch of low impact technical work... and THEN after you're cooled down from spending time listening to the instructor and figuring out how to do the techniques, it's time to roll, which is the actual high impact activity that you should be warming up for.

    Secondly, the warm up is too damn long. I come to BJJ so I can learn BJJ, not so I can do a bunch of cartwheels, sommersaults, leap frogs, and scoot around the floor for 20 minutes. It makes me feel like the instructors have this formula to waste a bunch of class time doing a bunch of no brainer fitness stuff so they can scratch their ass for half the class.

    The reasoning I've come to on the warmups is that since the majority of class time is not terribly physically demanding, instructors feel like they need to make a good chunk of the class into a little aerobics routine to get all the people looking to get in shape interested.

    People who skip the warm ups want to learn BJJ, but feel like they're time is being wasted by a bunch of crap that really doesn't have much to do with getting better at fighting (myself included... it's one of several reasons I have a hard time making myself bother with BJJ). Not everyone is just going to want to roll over and swallow anything their instructors make them do just because "sensei knows best".

    A few minutes jogging and shuffling around the mat and a few minutes to get a good set of dynamic stretches going to get the body "warmed up" is great. Everything else just feels like it's taking time out of the class where we could be doing something far more productive. If people aren't getting enough of a workout from the class, have more drills that involve high energy, athletic BJJ maneuvers and a higher concentration on wrestling (something that's actually directly applicable to what you're doing).

    As an instructor, it is frustrating when students show up consistently late. I know a lot of bjj guys, especially, get bent out of shape because they feel like they're being disrespected. I think as instructors, though, it's part of our job to come up with a class routine that people are going to enjoy and not WANT to skip.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 2:46pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torakaka View Post
    Warm up time in BJJ has always been an onoxious issue to me, because they don't make any sense.

    My number one complaint about warm ups is that they're always at the beginning of class, which makes no sense. The reason why you "warm up" is to get your muscles ready to go for some sort of high impact activity. In BJJ class, you warm up and get a nice sweat going... and then you do a bunch of low impact technical work... and THEN after you're cooled down from spending time listening to the instructor and figuring out how to do the techniques, it's time to roll, which is the actual high impact activity that you should be warming up for.

    Secondly, the warm up is too damn long. I come to BJJ so I can learn BJJ, not so I can do a bunch of cartwheels, sommersaults, leap frogs, and scoot around the floor for 20 minutes. It makes me feel like the instructors have this formula to waste a bunch of class time doing a bunch of no brainer fitness stuff so they can scratch their ass for half the class.

    The reasoning I've come to on the warmups is that since the majority of class time is not terribly physically demanding, instructors feel like they need to make a good chunk of the class into a little aerobics routine to get all the people looking to get in shape interested.

    People who skip the warm ups want to learn BJJ, but feel like they're time is being wasted by a bunch of crap that really doesn't have much to do with getting better at fighting (myself included... it's one of several reasons I have a hard time making myself bother with BJJ). Not everyone is just going to want to roll over and swallow anything their instructors make them do just because "sensei knows best".

    A few minutes jogging and shuffling around the mat and a few minutes to get a good set of dynamic stretches going to get the body "warmed up" is great. Everything else just feels like it's taking time out of the class where we could be doing something far more productive. If people aren't getting enough of a workout from the class, have more drills that involve high energy, athletic BJJ maneuvers and a higher concentration on wrestling (something that's actually directly applicable to what you're doing).

    As an instructor, it is frustrating when students show up consistently late. I know a lot of bjj guys, especially, get bent out of shape because they feel like they're being disrespected. I think as instructors, though, it's part of our job to come up with a class routine that people are going to enjoy and not WANT to skip.
    Yeah....no.

    Our entire warm up is designed around beginners learning to move on the ground. It's also based in proper conditioning which is different than kickboxing and boxing. For intermediate and advanced practitioners we warm up with ground with flow grappling. You can't do that with spazzy beginners, technically our warm up is 30 minutes; 15 of which is repetitive technical movement, then 30 minutes technical, then randori and rolling.
  6. Killbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 3:12pm


     Style: BJJ & MMA, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We do like 5 minutes of warmups that have nothign to to with jiujitsu (running, hops, etc...) then we do about 15 minutes of egg beaters, shrimp crawls, bridges, sprawls, etc and then go right into hip hiests and some easy stand up warm up series. Then takedowns, then techniques sections, then active drills (escape position, sweep/submit/pass) then open rolling.

    I'm usually 20 minutes or more late cause of class time vs wife coming home. Kids screw up everybody's schedule. Our instructors understand though. We're pretty laid back compared to alot of schools. We come rollin' in when we can. 2nd shift baby!
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 3:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torakaka View Post
    Warm up time in BJJ has always been an onoxious issue to me, because they don't make any sense.

    [avalanche of correctness]
    This is absolutely correct. My experience of BJJ 'warm ups' is that they aren't a warm up in any sense of the word. What BJJ 'warm ups' are, are actually a 20 minute cardio/ conditioning workout, not a warm up.

    Then after doing a cardio/conditioning workout without ever having done an actual warm up people are the left to sit about while a technique is explained getting cold.

    Same thing is often done in Judo as well, don't get my wrong I'm not bashing BJJ. I'm bashing badly designed warm ups and badly designed sessions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torakaka View Post
    As an instructor, it is frustrating when students show up consistently late. I know a lot of bjj guys, especially, get bent out of shape because they feel like they're being disrespected. I think as instructors, though, it's part of our job to come up with a class routine that people are going to enjoy and not WANT to skip.
    Even more correct. Especially about BJJ instructors getting bent out of shape, some serious sense of self importance issues with a lot of BJJ instructors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    Yeah....no.

    Our entire warm up is designed around beginners learning to move on the ground. It's also based in proper conditioning which is different than kickboxing and boxing. For intermediate and advanced practitioners we warm up with ground with flow grappling. You can't do that with spazzy beginners, technically our warm up is 30 minutes; 15 of which is repetitive technical movement, then 30 minutes technical, then randori and rolling.
    Well sounds like you do a proper warm up not a cardio circuit for 30 minutes.

    As Torakaka says design the warm up properly to genuinely warm people up and teach them fundamental movements and skills and they won't skip it. Especially if they understand the value and development of transferable skills for their activity.

    Having them doing a cardio circuit for 30 minutes out of a 1hr 30 lesson they'll be more inclined to skip it.

    If you want to develop cardip during a session and cardio is vital to grappling then do it after the warm up not in place of it and try and make it as skill transferable as possible.
  8. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 3:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    Yeah....no.

    Our entire warm up is designed around beginners learning to move on the ground. It's also based in proper conditioning which is different than kickboxing and boxing. For intermediate and advanced practitioners we warm up with ground with flow grappling. You can't do that with spazzy beginners, technically our warm up is 30 minutes; 15 of which is repetitive technical movement, then 30 minutes technical, then randori and rolling.
    arm bar drills, trangle drills, upa drills, breakfalls, shots, tucking and rolling and stuff where you pick up the another person... things of this sort I agree with completely because they practice motions you will make use of doing grappling. It's the same thing as when I make people take a few minutes throwing different kicks in the air to the motions just that much more practiced.

    It's all the cartwheels, leap frogs, and other totally random seeming aerobic exercise that just add another couple minutes of doing something just to get people a little tired that I have a problem with. I will concede, however, that a lot of stuff in grappling is far more potentially injurious than what's done in muaythai training, so you're certainly more limited in what you can have beginners doing to get them into the flow of class.

    I am not lazy or disrespectful to my instructors, but I still have a problem with feeling like I'm not making the most of my time in class by doing a bunch of exercises with minimal application to the technique of what I'm trying to learn.

    I'm also one of a few folks who believe taking up training time with flipping tires and swinging sledgehammers could be better spent actually doing the sport you're trying to get better at.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 3:53pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torakaka View Post
    arm bar drills, trangle drills, upa drills, breakfalls, shots, tucking and rolling and stuff where you pick up the another person... things of this sort I agree with completely because they practice motions you will make use of doing grappling. It's the same thing as when I make people take a few minutes throwing different kicks in the air to the motions just that much more practiced.

    It's all the cartwheels, leap frogs, and other totally random seeming aerobic exercise that just add another couple minutes of doing something just to get people a little tired that I have a problem with. I will concede, however, that a lot of stuff in grappling is far more potentially injurious than what's done in muaythai training, so you're certainly more limited in what you can have beginners doing to get them into the flow of class.

    I am not lazy or disrespectful to my instructors, but I still have a problem with feeling like I'm not making the most of my time in class by doing a bunch of exercises with minimal application to the technique of what I'm trying to learn.

    I'm also one of a few folks who believe taking up training time with flipping tires and swinging sledgehammers could be better spent actually doing the sport you're trying to get better at.
    Oh I completely agree, that's why our work outs are based strictly on what you're doing that day.
  10. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 5:11pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This showed up on JF the other day:



    It's a very good, albeit Judo-specific, warmup. (Some of the odder motions are practice for footsweeps, seoi nage, etc.) Warmups really should be that -- get the blood flowing, loosen the joints, and go through some sports-specific motions. As I get older, I find I appreciate the warmups more than ever.

    Grueling, conditioning-workout warmups are dumb.
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