Judo Throws in Sumo

**BKR** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 10:58am

Originally Posted by Kokikai90

Sorry for my ignorance, but do you mind explaining this a little more? Why is it nonsensical?

Truthfully? Because there is no way it would work in that particular environment. The way I've been taught aikido is that it either requires you to be standing upright (ideally in a large open space with lots of exits, which is absolutely not a sumo ring, and being upright would likely cause you to lose a sumo match quickly) or being on your knees (which means you lose in sumo). Judo, I've noticed, has highly applicable throws from a very low base that work against resisting opponents.
(Sarcasm) Also, i didn't want to KILL my opponents, I merely wanted to win. Aikido is too d34d1y for competition sports. (/Sarcasm)

I'm glad to see you still have a sense of humor. Didn't know you were training Judo formally, how long you been doing it?

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 11:07am

Originally Posted by Lu Tze

Because sumo training is obviously more optimal for sumo... all else being equal the sumo guy would win the sumo match. You shouldn't need someone else to tell you this.

Besides, there is huge crossover between sumo and judo nage waza. Here is a small list of Sumo nage waza.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/s...hniques/k.html

And here is a list of all the official techniques. Browse through and see what I mean.

http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/eng/kimarite/index.html

Aikido principles of tai sabaki would apply, no need for kote waza. Just get out of the way.

Kainahineri

Kainahineri (two-handed arm twist down) - The attacker locks up one of the defender's arms with both arms and, turning into his opponent, twists him over and into the clay.

Kakenage

Kakenage (hooking inner thigh throw) - The attacker hooks one leg inside the defender's legs and turns away in order to raise the hooked leg up and back to force the defender up and over into the clay.

Kakezori

Kakezori (hooking backwards body drop) - With his head under one of the defender's arms and an inside grip of his opponent's mawashi on the opposite side, the attacker attempts to twist the defender over or hook the defender's closest leg, driving his head into the defender's side to force him over backward.

Katasukashi

Katasukashi (under-shoulder swing down) - The attacker forces his opponent down by placing one hand on the opponent's shoulder blade from the inside and one from the outside, pulling him down and forward.

Kawazugake

Kawazugake (hooking backward counter throw) - The attacker hooks his opponent's closest leg from the inside and takes him over backward by pulling the hooked leg forward and across his own body.

Kekaeshi

Kekaeshi (minor inner footsweep) - The attacker sweeps his opponent's leg out from under him by kicking the defender's leg from the inside, often accompanied by a well-timed slap on the defender's back.

Ketaguri

Ketaguri (pulling inside ankle sweep) - Usually seen at the tachi-ai (initial charge), the attacker leaps to the side and kicks or sweeps his opponent's lead leg from the inside while slapping the shoulder or pulling the arm closest to him.

Kimedashi

Kimedashi (arm barring force out) - The attacker locks up the defender's elbows by wrapping his own arms around them from the outside, pulling up and in to march or swing the opponent backward and out of the ring.

Kimetaoshi

Kimetaoshi (arm barring force down) - The attacker locks up one or both of the opponent's elbows with an outside grip, then throwing his weight into and on top of the opponent.

Kirikaeshi

Kirikaeshi (twisting backward knee trip) - The attacker takes a deep step forward, placing his knee behind his opponent's lead leg, then twists his opponent backward and over that knee.

Komatasukui

Komatasukui (over thigh scooping body drop) - Best used in combination with an over-arm or under-arm throw. As the opponent takes a deep step forward to defend against the throw, the attacker grabs the opponent's leg and pulls up to drive the opponent over backward.

Koshikudake

Koshikudake (inadvertent collapse) - Koshikudake is recorded outside sumo's official list of winning techniques. A rikishi falls over backward without his opponent attempting any technique, often the result of a rikishi overcommitting to an attack.

Koshinage

Koshinage (hip throw) - The attacker turns into his opponent while pulling him onto his hips, straightening his knees, throwing the defender over and onto his back.

Kotehineri

Koshikudake (inadvertent collapse) - Koshikudake is recorded outside sumo's official list of winning techniques. A rikishi falls over backward without his opponent attempting any technique, often the result of a rikishi overcommitting to an attack.

Kotenage

Kotenage (armlock throw) - The attacker wraps his arm around the opponent's inside gripping arm, locking it up on or near the elbow and turning away from him, usually at the edge of the ring.

Kozumatori

Kozumatori (ankle pick) - The attacker leans into his opponent and grabs the opponent's ankle or base of the calf, then pulls that ankle up and toward him while driving into his foe, forcing him over onto his back. Another variation has the attacker pulling on the same ankle or calf from behind.

Kubihineri

Kubihineri (head twisting throw) - The attacker wraps one hand around his opponent's neck and the other hand around the opponent's inside gripping arm, then pulling the hand on the opponent's neck and twisting the opponent onto the clay.

Kubinage

Kubinage (headlock throw) - The attacker turns into his opponent and throws him by wrapping one arm around his neck as he makes that turn. The other hand is usually gripping the opponent's arm furthest from him from the outside.

**BKR** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 11:08am

Originally Posted by Kokikai90

Also, the Sumo thing was a lot of fun, and I'm glad we were able to raise a bunch of money and put on a good show for the people who paid for it.

Good work again on that!

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 11:13am

Originally Posted by keyoz

This. Sumo is the older art/sport so most probably the throws that are similar came to Judo from Sumo, directly or via Trad Jujitsu.

Also: I'm pretty sure that Asashoryu - the previous Yokozuna trained Bokh (mongolian wrestling) and Judo before becoming a Sumoka.

Sumo is very old, older than most traditional koryu jujutsu, which until the 1600s were a minor part of combat training relative to weapon training. Sumo has evolved over time as well, the history is fascinating if you dig into it a bit.

Sumoka? Sumitori? Not sure about the nomenclature.

Ben

**100xobm** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 6:49pm

Think it's sumotori. That ouchi in the video is awesome.

**Zerstörer90** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 9:21pm

Originally Posted by BKR

I'm glad to see you still have a sense of humor. Didn't know you were training Judo formally, how long you been doing it?

Actually I'm not, I've been doing a lot of rolling with a few of my friends that hold middle-ranks in Judo. Though I'm looking into Taking Judo starting Summer Quarter, because I heard somewhere (here) that it's cheap, affordable, and has excellent quality control.

And it's hard to exist in this day and age without some sense of humor. And if you can't take good criticism then you aren't a good martial artist.