Comparative forms training thread:

[Meex]

Jeez Meex. When does the movie come out?

Belushi, Farley and Kinison are gone. . .no one left to play me!
Hmm, I wonder if Gabriel Iglesias can act? He's already got the shirts!
Or, maybe Sammo?
Heeey, wait-a-minute!
I'm not fat, just big boned!!
`~/

(actually, it could be more like keystone cops meets the expendables.)

[W. Rabbit]

Forms training is important in my kwoon, but sporadic, we will sometimes go weeks without specifically doing forms as a whole class. When we do forms, since different people are at different progression levels, we tend to break up into groups.

The five animals in Tang Fong Hung Ga are dragon (rising strikes, elbows), snake (fast open handed), tiger (fierce claws, grabs), leopard (fast piercing jabs), and crane (whipping flexibility, evasion). On top of that are the Five Element fists: earth, water, fire, metal, wood, which I am just now starting to do regularly in forms like the Fu Hok.

Since we drill combat applications of each (pure) form component in parallel throughout the course of training, this means sometimes a subgroup works on a sequence of the (pure) form, then breaks up into partner drills for analyzing the combat application.

Doing these in parallel, sifu helps by interjecting the reasons why we train in the form versions (strengthening) vs. the application versions (usefulness, mobility), as well as makes it easier to correct mistakes in both since a more "holistic" (start to end) focus is made on each individual technique.

Once we started shadowboxing a lot of the movements felt very natural, something I think Hung ga has a good reputation for. My wife caught me shadowboxing in the basement and said it looked like (Western) boxing and I kind of smiled because I figured I must be doing something right after 2 years.

It really helps me personally to see this start-to-bottom line break down of the techniques. Some techniques I have learned application before their form version, and vice versa, and the end result was it all blends together into a cohesive boxing system, imho.

[Omega Supreme]

Hung Gar- Lau Gar, Mu Fa, Lin Wan, and Fu Hok are the forms I know.

[Meex]

Hung Gar- Lau Gar, Mu Fa, Lin Wan, and Fu Hok are the forms I know.

Sifu knew/learned ONE set.
And, fought almost daily, going to and from his sifu's.
Ahh, the "good ole days!"

(Once he got around to it), sifu taught me three sets and a bunch of "exercises" and static positions (broken down from his one set).

After I was allowed to teach, he and I broke that down further into (the blasphemous) "five elements," plus five exercises, and three forms. These 'element' sets being longer versions of the original 'bunch of exercises') in addition to those static positions.
No animals, as our focus is on man, and all that man can be.


* *
Sifu is a very unconventional guy. We rarely learned the (correct or proper) names of anything. When someone would ask, he would laugh and say, "Why? Life not one kungf fu movie. . .what, you going annouce your form and lineage to da opponent before you fight?" and laugh some more.

Then pound on everyone for fun.

The reason I mention this point is that my friend has been learning from sifu's sifu for about ten years. He had three, 3", three-ring binders full of notes, forms, footwork patterns, drawings of hand-positions, etc., etc.. A lot of which are sets built from the many working versions of forms created while he and my sifu broke down sifu's original single training set.

And, he knew ALL of the Chinese names, too!

Sadly, once my sifu was allowed to teach, he wasn't allowed back to his sifu's class, and his sifu stopped teaching what we learned.

So the past ten years of my friend's life have been spent learning 'bad tai chi' forms. But, it's cool that he knows all the names and stuff. He just has so many bad habits as all the application has been removed from his forms. And, although I asked sifu for permission to "fix" him, and he asked his sifu for permission to work with me, it has been a very long and hard road, so far.

So, yeah, I can see where people can claim to have trained under sifu's for years, and not have learned anything. And, where an unscrupulous teacher can collect a lot of $$ without imparting any knowledge.

My sifu's sifu?
He teaches t'ai chi exercises, just not through any forms you'd ever seen. And, his class is full of new-agers, and tree-huggers who totally enjoy it. My friend even knew what he was getting when he joined, his work schedule kept him from learning in my class. . .(and he though he would be able to learn application separately later on).

`~/

[Omega Supreme]

Sounds similar to me. My original sifu told me it was time to teach and he stopped teaching me. My kung fu brothers/sifus told me to take it as a badge of honor.

[Meex]

Sounds similar to me. My original sifu told me it was time to teach and he stopped teaching me. My kung fu brothers/sifus told me to take it as a badge of honor.

Mine called me to come and pick him up at his house. We went to lunch, during which he told me to go and teach. We went back to his place and trained for a while until his son came home from school, then I played with his son for another hour or so.

Three days later, when I showed up at class, he 'publicly' dismissed me from his class, saying, ". . .you are no longer my student!" As everyone else was behind him, he winked, and said, "Now go, and don't come around here, anymore!!"

During the next week, classmates were calling, and asking what had happened, or relating how he wouldn't talk about it at class, etc..

A week later, he kicked out two other classmates in a similar way.
But, called and said he was sending me two of 'my guys' to finish training, and to help with teacxhing new students. Also, calling them, and telling them to come train with me.

`~/

[Omega Supreme]

Mine called me to come and pick him up at his house. We went to lunch, during which he told me to go and teach. We went back to his place and trained for a while until his son came home from school, then I played with his son for another hour or so.

Three days later, when I showed up at class, he 'publicly' dismissed me from his class, saying, ". . .you are no longer my student!" As everyone else was behind him, he winked, and said, "Now go, and don't come around here, anymore!!"

During the next week, classmates were calling, and asking what had happened, or relating how he wouldn't talk about it at class, etc..

A week later, he kicked out two other classmates in a similar way.
But, called and said he was sending me two of 'my guys' to finish training, and to help with teacxhing new students. Also, calling them, and telling them to come train with me.

`~/

Oh god, I'm glad to read this. I thought it was only my sifu.

[Meex]

Oh god, I'm glad to read this. I thought it was only my sifu.

Since you already like my sifu, I will
now turn that like into full blown love:

He never calls himself sifu, calls his sifu,
"Andy" and is known (feared) among the
Chinatown crowd for often telling people,
"Who the #$%@* made YOU sifu?" and,
"What? You like go? Yeah, that's what I
thought!"

`~/

[Cullion]

Does anybody here do weapon forms ? Not just know them, but still practice them ?

[Omega Supreme]

*Raises hand.