Comparative forms training thread:

[Omega Supreme]

Before I start let me put on my typical Omega troll and say I nobody **** with this thread if you're not serious about comparative training methods from different CMA styles. I will insist on a 3 day ban on anybody caught trolling in this thread.
*Puts down big stick:

Let me start by saying most of my training was not done in class form. Rarely did we train together like I do currently or as I've seen in other martial arts schools. The 'doors' of my original school were open 4 days per week 3 hours at a time. I rarely saw people my own age in the beginning and everybody usually was doing there own thing. Compared to the way I train my students now and how I see it in other schools and other schools I trained at, I've rarely seen it done this way. Ironically the main place I've actually seen this type of training were at old school boxing and kickboxing gyms.

My training were originally broken up in sets. No forms. You would spend forever doing different movements, stances, strikes, conditioning, and 'short forms' (like combinations). I did not learn 'forms' until nearly 5 years into my training. It was also about this time that we started doing scenario training (self-defense), and sparring with pads. It was about this time I was also allowed to learn weapons, which were taught in similar style but shorter amount of time.

There were a total of 5 basic animal forms. Once you learned those forms you were to specialize in one form pulling techniques and application from the advance set. At some point you were to create your own set form.

Our basic training sets were:
Iron warrior
quick fist
small boxing set
Silken Rope
Seizing hands
Power fist boxing

Our 5 basic and advance style forms were
Tiger
Dragon
Eagle claw
Leopard Fist
Crane

This was my original system of Kung fu. When I studied Hung Ga I found the system to be more form orientated and group study centric.

.......
So now that I opened up this can of worms who's sharing?

[Omega Supreme]

wow, 37 views and not one comment.

[Cullion]

When I did Wing Chun, the first form, Siu Lim Tao, was done in it's entirety for the first 20-30 minutes of the class. Being able to do it extremely slowly without any shakiness or other sign of fatigue or restlessness was seen as a mark of being advanced.

In the Tai Chi I do there are some repetitive 2 man drills (literally 1 or 2 movements & steps per person repeated over and over again) are used to warm up before more intense and strenuous things like wrestling or padwork. The long, slow hand form is used to cool down at the end of the class. I think of it more like a yoga routine than a catalogue of fighting techniques.

Both of these CMA classes have a distinctly different feel and format than the Japanese-derived MA I've tried. There's much more working in small groups rather than standing in lines and counting to 10, etc.. No chinese 'uniforms' in either, with both being run by people who considered themselves 'traditional'.

[Omega Supreme]

Yes, I find it ironic that most traditional CMA schools I go to don't have the "traditional uniforms" but then we have the commercial ones and everybody is wearing the frog button uniforms.

[Cullion]

Tell me about the traditional exercises you still like to do.

I still do the Tai Chi form and some of the conditioning exercises. I like them. Things like back bends as a substitute for crunches.

They limber me up, and the exercises gently strengthen my core muscles without tightening them up.

[Mello]

Yeah i'd be interested to hear what traditional exercises you do omega, and what you find useful about them. I did wing chun for a while, and my sifu mainly saw forms as a catalogue of techniques and a way to get shapes correct when training alone. Lot's of partner training at the chun school obviously. When i was a kid i did TKD and wado-ryu, both pretty standard fare. I like the xing yi approach to forms myself. That and shadow boxing

[Kouch]

Yeah i'd be interested to hear what traditional exercises you do omega, and what you find useful about them. I did wing chun for a while, and my sifu mainly saw forms as a catalogue of techniques and a way to get shapes correct when training alone. Lot's of partner training at the chun school obviously

we do the same thing at our school. start with forms and do them slowly to get positions correct. and were used for more of a "wing chun tool box." lol. most of what we do in WC is found in the forms anyway, so my sifu emphasizes them. after forms we do the typical push up-sit up-jumpin jacks sorta thing to get the blood flowin.

is there anything that you would suggest to be a good supplement into a warm up routine?

[Omega Supreme]

Actually I still do those exercises. In most cases much further on in training.

[Meex]

Back in '78-'79 (or so I've heard from some old folks ;-) we had a group of 10-15 who met every other Saturday morning for 'fight club' like activities.

The purpose?
We met to improve our skills, have fun, and beat on others as entertainment!

The only rules?
1 - full contact to ko, quit, or something's broken.
2 - the first one who gets mad and makes it personal gets 'mobbed' by everyone else.
3 - any other incidents or questions, see rule #2.

Three attendees of this group introduced me to my sifu.

Sifu didn't have 'class' or students. We seemed to be cannon fodder for sifu, like target practice to keep his skills honed. Each training session we got hammered, and were left to try to figure out what happened.

There were two students that came with sifu from his sifu's (school/class/cave?) who would try to give us some semblance of training, but while they knew a lot of forms and such, their application really lacked.

My original group of classmates included five world-class athletes, three world-famous guys, two tong enforcers, and innocent little me. . .'the fat guy. '

We met twice a week at first, training as long as sifu could stand us being around him.

We met after work, at around 5-5:30pm, to warm um and try to get a handle on what happened last week. We regularly trained to after midnight, and once or twice, past 2am.

Sifu would show up EXACTLY at 6pm, and expect us to just follow along as he went through some warm up exercises (always different) that he says would lead us into what he had for us that day. (we never knew what he meant, but commenting meant worse beatings.)

Then, we got hammered. . .over and over for hours. Always coming back for more. We would attack him, and he'd take us out with feet only, one arm, just wrists, mostly he made us hit each other. . .yeah, we were really bad. But, outside of sifu, mostly, we could kick ass! And, THAT is what made us stay. We all wanted that which he had. That simple.

And, every time we thought we figured something out, we would proudly show him, only to be met with derision and his crooked smile. Then, he'd say, "No! Now, go practice!" Outside of 'class' we met every day to practice at least two hours. We figured that six pairs of eyes and ears from experienced fighters would be able to figure ths thing out. NOT!

No sets, no forms, no techniques.
Always different.
What an awesome way to train!

The best part?
No animals, elements, or drunkenness!
What we learned was based on man.

Later, he actually went and with his sifu's help, codified what he learned into a series of sets, forms, and jeongs. (He told me he did it because he felt bad for all those who were there, and did not learn anything - haha!)

`~/

[Omega Supreme]

Jeez Meex. When does the movie come out?