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  1. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/21/2011 4:03pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Squerlli View Post
    This is an incredibly complicated question. It's not going to change the fact that: Drilling + conditioning + sparring = better fighter. Who cares how much energy it takes? That's what cardio, strength and technique training is for.
    Bold is a given, at least in this community. I'm just trying to figure out if it's possible to prove that it takes more energy for the smaller guy vs a bigger guy, and if so, how much more energy. I mean, it makes sense, we all know it's true, but how to measure it?

    I know there are tons of variables, too many to realistically control out and get an absolute answer, just want to see if this can be calculated, even roughly. What variables can be taken out, and what are vital to getting a reasonable result?

    Kintanon's idea of CO2 output seems logical - maybe there's an equivalent study already.
    "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln



  2. Jazz.w92 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/21/2011 4:09pm


     Style: MMA-Aikido-Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well you'd have to factor in the amount of energy it will take the bigger guy to keep moving. The bigger guy may use more energy but not all of that is necessarily going into the fight. It's easier for the smaller guy to move around because his costs of energy are lower since metabolism scales with size at about 0.75...

    Any figures you get regarding energy output would have to be adjusted to find out how much energy was used to fight and how much is used for things like maximising O2 intake and cooling the body down, get blood where it's needed etc.

    DISCLAIMER: Poster is but a lowly, exhausted undergrad who is too sleepy to do any real work...
    Last edited by Jazz.w92; 4/21/2011 4:17pm at .
  3. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/21/2011 4:23pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Simply in terms of energy output (relative to physics, energy as work or an accumulation of force; rather than metabolic, where the variables are too complex to even make a relevant conjecture), you would have to record each individual joint movement. Then you would measure how much mass each individual motion moved, and the distance it moved that mass. To make things more difficult, consider that each movement done in a grappling situation is going to be a combination of several individual joint movements. Just pushing someone on the shoulder, for example, is a compound movement. It consists of (v) of rotation at the elbow, combined with (x) of rotation at the shoulder, combined with (y) of protraction of the scapula, combined with (z) of rotation of the torso; so on and so on. And you have to calculate these accumulations for every single motion performed.

    Now, in the OP you mentioned setting certain variables as equivalent to simplify (strength levels, skill levels, etc.). The above could be simplified if we assumed that all joints were used equally, produced the equivalent amount of force, and each fighter performed the exact same movements. As people above have mentioned, there are countless other variables involved as well. The only way to get a simple calculation is to eliminate all the variables by assuming them to be equivalent, leaving nothing but the weight difference (175 lbs. and 225 lbs. as stated in the OP). In this case, what you'll ultimately end up with is a ratio of the weight difference.

    If you wanted a simple and easy to use equation to determine the energy output difference, you could simply use the following:
    Heavier fighter uses: 175/225; ~ 77.78% of the energy of the lighter fighter.
    Lighter fighter uses: 225/175; ~ 128.57% of the energy of the heavier fighter.

    However, as has been acknowledged, using that ratio will eliminate every single variable present in the fight. It won't equate for difference in conditioning, skills, strength, injury, experience, diet, metabolism, gi size, penis size, hormone levels, drive to win, or anything else that comes to play in a fight. It's a weight difference only. But to get anything remotely accurate involving the other variables, you'd need to use a biomechanics lab and some form of computational engineering.
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  4. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/21/2011 4:29pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez
    What variables can be taken out, and what are vital to getting a reasonable result?
    The answer lies partially in how accurate you want the results. The more variables you account for, the more accuracy you get; but the more complicated the calculations. From my perspective, I'd say the three most crucial variables would be:
    1) Strength potential of each figher. (determines how effectively one fighter can move the other; stronger person expends less energy moving the same weight)
    2) Metabolic efficiency, more commonly known as conditioning. (determines how effectively the body can provide energy to the nerves and muscles doing the work; how long the fighter can continue)
    3) Skill and experience. (determines how efficiently the fighter can perform his techniques; more efficient execution will require less energy to perform, even for the same technique).

    These are listed in no particular order. If I had to take a guess, I'd guess the efficiency that comes from skill would have the largest impact.
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