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  1. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2011 9:36am

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    The real issue here is that doctors have no business asking questions about guns because they're not qualified to offer advice on gun safety in the first place.

    Many doctors have never fired a weapon in their life. People who aren't trained with firearms don't know how to handle them properly. Why would they think they're competent to tell others how to do so? I don't go around giving people advice on blood pressure medication. A lot of doctors are know-it-alls with a God complex. They should learn to sit down and shut the **** up when they don't know what they're talking about.
  2. Vince Tortelli is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2011 10:09am

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    The list goes on and on. I advocate the anyone who wants to have a kid apply for a license, and only granted after thorough genetic, psychological, and means testing as well as a year of training, theory and hands on, with a thorough test at end of said year. Until then everyone should be forced to use contraception. I guess you give the shots to women, don't have one for men yet.
    I agree with the judo man. Kids are not toys!


    Odd thread derail:
    Why is everyone so sure a ban on guns would lead to a reduction in gun related crimes and gun deaths? Prohibition didn't do much to cut down on alcohol consumption...
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2011 10:31am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    The designed nature of the machine matters when debating the reasonableness of someone's concern about said machine's presence near children. A lethal weapon is more or less automatically worthy of greater concern than, say, a book.
    Machine? Car is a machine more people die in America in cars. I know you'll bring up the "designed purpose" straw-man. Yes, arguing that the design is more important than death, when the AAP's entire argument is based on HEALTH, is a strawman.

    Drowning? Unhealthy. Cars? Unhealthy. Guns? Unhealthy. While I agree that a doctor should be able to ask any question, it should be relevant and not political. Now, if they were asking all of the above questions regularly I wouldn't see an issue.

    Whereas I agree with you in principle, your statement has little to do with doctors inquiring about gun ownership and/or storage. Beyond that the fact that a question is neither a ban nor a restriction, a doctor is not a legislative body.
    Neither is a gun or swimming pool. The actions are being discussed. I'd argue the doctor belongs to the AAP which for all intents and purposes is a legislative body.

    This is another place where we don't disagree; I'm just never comfortable with someone acting as though a gun deserves anything less than absolute discipline—even with regard to language. This is the primary reason why you'll never see me refer to a gun as a “toy.”
    I feel the exact same way with swimming pools and guns.
  4. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2011 10:52pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    The real issue here is that doctors have no business asking questions about guns because they're not qualified to offer advice on gun safety in the first place.

    Many doctors have never fired a weapon in their life. People who aren't trained with firearms don't know how to handle them properly. Why would they think they're competent to tell others how to do so? I don't go around giving people advice on blood pressure medication. A lot of doctors are know-it-alls with a God complex. They should learn to sit down and shut the **** up when they don't know what they're talking about.
    You don't have to be an electrician to figure out that parents of infants should cover their electrical outlets. You don't have to be an automotive engineer to suggest that car seats are a good idea for kindergarteners. Likewise keeping firearms in a locked gun cabinet or with trigger locks is a good preventative to kids doing something stupidly dangerous.

    It's the job of doctors to keep human bodies running & they can overreact to things that they see as threatening that (many medical associations dislike combat sports for this reason), but politics aside it's totally appropriate for pediatricians to remind parents of common household dangers & firearms fit that category. Those who assume doctors are urging parents to get rid of their firearms may be projecting their own fears more than examining the facts of the situation.
  5. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2011 12:47am

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaeBo_Master View Post
    In the United States, 2010, there were 2.6 million crimes attempted in which the victims had to draw or use their gun to prevent the crime.
    No, there wasn't. The 2.5 million number, which isn't from 2010 anyway, is Kleck's bad research—nobody outside of partisans take it seriously, and that particular survey was refuted rather definitively in 1997: http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Hemenway1.htm


    Anyway, doctors should be able to discuss whatever they like with their patients, without government butting in. Patients aren't compelled to answer, and are free to change their doctors at any time, after all. And the AAP does offer information on a number of children's health topics including, yes, swimming pools:

    http://www.aap.org/healthtopics/watersafety.cfm

    and automobiles:

    http://www.aap.org/healthtopics/carseatsafety.cfm

    And yes, pediatricians do ask consulting questions for patients whose families have swimming pools, cars, etc.

    Seriously, do any of you even spend two seconds researching before starting to type? Does anyone here have children and go to the doctor's office with them?
    Last edited by Rivington; 4/26/2011 12:51am at .
  6. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2011 7:43am

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape View Post
    You don't have to be an electrician to figure out that parents of infants should cover their electrical outlets. You don't have to be an automotive engineer to suggest that car seats are a good idea for kindergarteners. Likewise keeping firearms in a locked gun cabinet or with trigger locks is a good preventative to kids doing something stupidly dangerous.

    It's the job of doctors to keep human bodies running & they can overreact to things that they see as threatening that (many medical associations dislike combat sports for this reason), but politics aside it's totally appropriate for pediatricians to remind parents of common household dangers & firearms fit that category. Those who assume doctors are urging parents to get rid of their firearms may be projecting their own fears more than examining the facts of the situation.
    For self-defense purposes, if you're going to lock away all your guns you might as well go throw them in a lake. Locked guns are useless. The solution is properly educating the kiddies.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2011 7:58am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Seriously, do any of you even spend two seconds researching before starting to type? Does anyone here have children and go to the doctor's office with them?
    Yep and they rarely ask about swimming pools, cars, or guns.
  8. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2011 9:53am

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Yep and they rarely ask about swimming pools, cars, or guns.
    You might not have been to one in a while then. Asking about and discussing cars and car seats is actually fairly common and is built into the regulatory regime in some parts of the US. In California, one has to arrange for a car with a car seat to bring a newborn home from the hospital—and often after routine medical visits— even if you live across the street and can easily walk. Of course, doctors consult about car seats both before and after birth almost universally. (See California Car Seat Law, Health and Safety Code Section 1203.4, 1212, and 1268 which cover alternative birthing centers, clinics, and hospitals, for one example.)

    And as already linked to above, water safety resources are also widely available in pediatricians offices. Perhaps you may not consider, "Do you have a pool? Would you like a pamphlet about water safety?" questions, but they are the exact sort of "consulting questions" this pack of geniuses is so concerned about. And pediatricians really really do ask after all sorts of things: diet, exercise, car safety, water safety, pet safety, etc.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2011 10:01am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    You might not have been to one in a while then.
    Nope you are utterly wrong on this count. Go read my initial post again because, you have a disconnect somewhere. I said rarley you might want to ask a different question.
  10. Vince Tortelli is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2011 10:04am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Seriously, do any of you even spend two seconds researching before starting to type?
    I'm a Republican. I prefer to go with my gut feelings and intuition over (no doubt liberal biased) "research" and "facts".
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