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  1. GIburner is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 12:43pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    BJJ competition teams pro/con?

    As I've become more involved with competition Jiu jitsu through the years in my area, I've noticed that what once was academy X vs academy Y is now Nova Uniao vs Alliance, BTT vs Brasa etc. As the competition scene grows and grows with more and more schools, so do these teams grow with more and more competitions.

    I celebrate the fact that the art is growing and reaching more people which means more innovation and new techniques being brought to the game.

    However, I've noticed more and more of these big competition teams involving themselves in even the local non- IBJJF tournaments such as NAGAs and Fight2Win tournaments, grapplers quest etc.

    It's become obvious to me that in many cases, the team that wins is also the team who brought in the most amount of competitors. I understand that more advanced grapplers earn more points, less advance grapplers earn less points etc.
    This still does not alway balance out with the smaller teams.

    I've listed some pros and cons, all of which can be argued for the better or worse for the BJJ academy and for BJJ competitor. I am in no way bad-mouthing any way your gym trains or how they choose to prepare for competiton or win tournaments.

    The pros

    - These competion teams offer to be a part of something bigger, many teams have intramural tournaments to see who will represent the team should there be multiple competitors of the same weight/belt.

    - Seminars and training sessions w/ elite grapplers of the team are made availabe usually at a cheaper price if any admission is charged.

    -Students can train at different schools under the same flag for little or no extra cost which means many training partners (hopefully)

    The cons

    -Having these large teams means not everyone is going to be able to compete in the same dvision, creating a sub-team often of a similar name. This is just like being on the A team or the B team in football. B teamers get less attention because they are the smallest guy/ not as athletic
    -Competitors of a team are encouraged to stay within their own association for training/seminars. (more so closer to competition time) but this can in a sense hinder a grapplers growth, a example would be a competitor under Nova Uniao is encouraged to grapple at a school that competes for the same team and discouraged from training at say an Alliance academy that offers a great competitor of the same division. Some academys require you to wear a team or academy patch when training at the academy.

    -The best Academy isn't necessarily part of the best Team. Even though higher skilled competitors are awarded more points for placing, it still does not always even out points that get racked up by lower belts or advanced grapplers sandbagging which is a seperate issue altogether. Its harder to differentiate what school is actually responsible for producing the most amount of advanced-level champions from the school or team that has a higher volume of competitors placing in lower divisions.

    What is your take on larger BJJ teams? is it better/worse for the sport?

    Is it better/worse for the competitor?

    Is it Better/worse for BJJ as a martial art?
  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 1:01pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1) Ignore team scores.
    2) Feel better.
  3. Tenebrous is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 1:16pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Teams are great. Everyone helps everyone improve with a competitive mindset. Having scores for teams is dumb, because as you've said, the largest team tends to win the trophy.

    It's great for the promoter though. Large teams competing to see who can pay the most entry fees? Awesome.
    I'm picturing you drooling onto the keyboard as you type, one eye rotating independent of the other as your hands mash the keys. - Sophist
  4. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 1:34pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Our gym is an Alliance affiliate, but at local events we use our gym name as our team, not Alliance. A lot of other Alliance affiliates do the same at the Atlanta events. Generally if you see that "Alliance" won the team trophy in an ATL event it's the Alliance HQ school, not the 10 alliance affiliates within driving distance all combining their scores.
  5. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 1:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If BJJ teams want to have 'team points' then they should set up team competitions. Like in Judo you have a team comprised of 5-7 guys depending on how many weightclasses you can fill. They all line up facing the other club's team at the start and bow, or shake hands in BJJ.

    Then everyone goes back apart from the two lightest. They fight, then the next heaviest, then the next until everyone's fought. Whichever has the most wins/ points is the winning team.

    Depending on the size you run it as pools and then knockout. Or Just straight knockout with optional repecharge.

    Then you really are a 'team' and you're actually competing against the guys from the rival club. If you have a lot of people who want to compete then you have two teams eg. Alliance A and Alliance B.

    That way the club rivalry stuff can be played out at team comps and people who're just competing for experience and themselves etc... can do so at individual comps and you can minimise the flooding of them by big clubs in an effort to get cred for that club.

    Also make it illegal to fag out and shake hands rather than fight each other if two guys from the same club end up in the finals or whatever. That's just gay.
  6. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 2:16pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree 100% with Juduka_UK and love the idea of true team comps in BJJ. That would be excellent.

    Also, if I met one of my mates in the finals of a division there is NO WAY we would shake hands and close it out. I didn't pay my entry fee to shake hands!
  7. Vince Tortelli is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 2:18pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rashad Evans does NOT approve of the direction this thread is taking.
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 2:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    I agree 100% with Juduka_UK and love the idea of true team comps in BJJ. That would be excellent.
    These things have to start from the ground up, ever thought about organising a comp?
  9. GIburner is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 2:38pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Also make it illegal to fag out and shake hands rather than fight each other if two guys from the same club end up in the finals or whatever. That's just gay.
    A lot of schools that close out divisions will have a final match the next class at the academy in order to see who is the true first place winner. This is done to help avoid any bad blood/hurt feelings
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/18/2011 2:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIburner View Post
    A lot of schools that close out divisions will have a final match the next class at the academy in order to see who is the true first place winner. This is done to help avoid any bad blood/hurt feelings
    Well if they're going to compete anyway why do it behind closed doors. Its only a BJJ competition its not the end of the world if you lose. The people and clubs that do this need to grow up.
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