Bartitsu: The Lost Martial Art of Sherlock Holmes

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 6:35pm

Tony, I'm curious if you touch on the issue of Yatarou Handa's JiuJutsu in the film

**DdlR** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 6:48pm

No, that was one of the topics that veered into the realm of "too esoteric/specialised/etc." for our intended audience. The Bartitsu Forum message archive is still the best resource for info. on the Handa school.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 4/26/2011 6:55pm

Yes, I recently joined.

**corto-maltese** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 6:56am

Bartitsu gained a popularity among Victorian/Holmes enthusiasts, various steampunk and historical fencing groups, that want to spread their training programme and win more students. Bartitsu club itself exited from 1899 till 1902, only 2-3 years and after that Bartitsu method died out. There is no existing teaching lineage, today Bartitsu instructors are mostly historical fencers and movie fight choreographers. Bartitsu "theory", presented at official "Bartitsu society" webpage and various MA forums, is based on a fake lineage and incorrect, personal suggestions, not on the real historical facts. This "theory" has nothing to do with an excellent research of (1990s period) British Jiu-jitsu historians about Bartitsu. Today nobody carries walking stick on a daily basis, except you are an elderly man over 70. If you want to develope yourself in a reality based and modern self-defence methods - STAY AWAY from Bartitsu and its instructors.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 9:13am

The fact that Bartitsu effectively died out in 1902 and has been reconstructed over the past ten years is the whole theme of this documentary and is accepted as a basic fact in studying this subject. There is no claim of any lineage at all, so I'm curious about your reference to a "fake lineage".

Here's a quote on the subjects of lineage and reconstructionism taken from the documentary interview with Harry Cook, who was one of the 1990s-era British jiujitsu historians you referred to:

"The best thing about Barton-Wright is that he's dead! It sounds funny when you put it like that, but it's true. How can you resurrect Bartitsu? You have the articles Barton-Wright wrote for Pearson's Magazine, you have comments made about him by various people at various points in his life, you have the books and articles produced by his students. That's about it. It gives you a kind of a general outline - which is good - but there's a lot of room in there to adapt and modify as you wish, and there's nothing wrong with that, of course, because that's exactly what Barton-Wright did! So in that sense, you're following a fine tradition.

If Barton-Wright was alive, he might do things or say things and you'd say, "oh, I don't want to do that". You'd have to break away from him to do that. And that would be OK again, I think, from his school of thought."

For the record, the modern Bartitsu revival is a collective effort to continue - not necessarily to complete - the experimental cross-training process that Barton-Wright left as a work-in-progress back in 1902. It's open-ended and different people take it in different directions, just as Harry Cook suggested.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 9:17am

Funny the way history repeats itself ...

**corto-maltese** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 2:21pm

Interesting is that your nickname is Ddlr and you are representing or advocating Bartitsu. Ddlr-defense dans la rue, together with Savate Defense and ADAC, are realistic, effective French self-defence methods that have nothing to do with Bartitsu. You (Bartitsu society) have created your personal, fake Bartitsu, based on your incorrect personal suggestions or wishes, "Bartitsu-as it can be", not on the real historical facts and now you are trying to present it, to the MA community, as the true Barton-Wright´s teaching. Give the method your own name, but don´t call it Bartitsu or Neo-Bartitsu. Barton-Wright has his own vision, philosophy, that is completly different then your wishes and suggestions !!

**DdlR** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 3:47pm

I chose DdlR as a screen name for this forum because it's short and easy to remember.

I said that I was curious about your reference to a "fake lineage" - do you have any answer on that subject?

The Bartitsu Society is completely above-board about our aims and methods, which, as you know, include all of the canonical material presented as Bartitsu by Barton-Wright, as well as numerous different modern, neo-Bartitsu approaches. I hope that you do understand that - it's been explained often enough via our website, Wikipedia page, books, articles, the documentary, etc. ...

**corto-maltese** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 5:54pm

I don´t believe your interpretation about your nickname, you are lying. As I noticed in my previous message you have created a fake "Bartitsu" based on your incorrect personal suggestions or wishes, you are lying to the readers of your articles, books, members of various MA forums, visitors of your website, Wikipedia page, etc. Shame on you !!

**DdlR** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 11:20pm

You're welcome to believe whatever you like - bridges burned, etc. - but I'm still curious; you said that Bartitsu theory was based on a "fake lineage", I've challenged you on that twice and you've simply repeated the claim. You're obviously trolling, but should we just assume that you can't prove what you're saying?