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  1. bigstu31s is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 8:33am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's the link to my blog http://stuartjudo.blogspot.com/
    I'll have a go at adding it to the bottom of my posts now
  2. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 10:48am


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    This sounds kind of retarded. Fair enough if it's a sideline at a proper competition, but running it as it's own thing is stupid. You want to do a ground fighting competition? There's no shortage of BJJ ones available, and in my experience they're always open to anyone taking part.

    Also, having people start form the knees and penalising them for pulling guard. **** everything about that. You're on your knees - you are already in a bad position. You can't say that going to guard is somehow giving up positioning, no way - it's moving to better position.
    It's not dumb because there are different rules. Aspects of the BJJ points system and rules are asinine. The fact that there is matte is pretty significant.

    Knees are superior to guard, in my view.
  3. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 11:20am

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Knees are superior to guard, in my view.
    It's a position where you have no mobility, yet your legs aren't free to control your opponent.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 11:24am

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is a certain element of skill to starting from the knees. However, you shouldn't penalise people for pulling guard in a newaza contest that's silly.

    Although I'd rather be fighting from the knees then have someone in my guard or me in there guard.
  5. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 11:31am


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    It's a position where you have no mobility, yet your legs aren't free to control your opponent.
    Knees are, by definition, neutral. In guard play, the person on the bottom is technically at a disadvantage (gravity and all that) -- especially in Judo where lifting your opponent is matte. Or where daki age is allowed.

    That said, knees aren't a "real" position. I pull guard if someone's intent on wrestling on the knees.
    Last edited by Res Judicata; 4/20/2011 11:35am at .
  6. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 1:12pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Knees are, by definition, neutral. In guard play, the person on the bottom is technically at a disadvantage (gravity and all that) -- especially in Judo where lifting your opponent is matte.
    Well not really. They've allready decided they're not going to fight from their feet, if they're throwing that part of judo out it seems a little silly to keep the part of medieval cannon law that states guard is an inferior position.

    Or where daki age is allowed.
    Have you ever heard of open guard? It's pretty cool.
  7. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 1:21pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I rarely use closed guard in Judo unless I need to slow things down and regain composure. When in ne waza randori or shiai, I pull open guard and go from their 99% of the time.

    I prefer to be on top in any case, especially against a larger opponent.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 1:30pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd rather be on on top than bottom under most rulesets. Under Judo rules you can camp out and wait for matte (or stand up). You know how hard it is to run an offense from the bottom on a guy who does that. I'd also prefer to be on top in MMA rules. Guard is arguably a minor advantage under BJJ rules.

    Re: daki age. The pickup matte rule in Judo limits offense from your back-- and you have to be better at it in some ways than BJJ. You can't realistically play closed guard and certain kinds of open guard. And, when you go for a sub, it can cause problems unless you defend it in advance (e.g. hook the leg). Getting picked up out of an armbar or triangle ends things in Judo that would continue in BJJ. Getting slammed out, well, that sucks.

    Kosen rules are kind of interesting. They could use those, although it might give too much of an advantage to good tachi waza guys.
  9. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 1:49pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I'd rather be on on top than bottom under most rulesets. Under Judo rules you can camp out and wait for matte (or stand up). You know how hard it is to run an offense from the bottom on a guy who does that. I'd also prefer to be on top in MMA rules. Guard is arguably a minor advantage under BJJ rules.

    Re: daki age. The pickup matte rule in Judo limits offense from your back-- and you have to be better at it in some ways than BJJ. You can't realistically play closed guard and certain kinds of open guard. And, when you go for a sub, it can cause problems unless you defend it in advance (e.g. hook the leg). Getting picked up out of an armbar or triangle ends things in Judo that would continue in BJJ. Getting slammed out, well, that sucks.

    Kosen rules are kind of interesting. They could use those, although it might give too much of an advantage to good tachi waza guys.
    You are missing the point here. These guys want to have a tournament, not an event at a tournament, an entire bloody tournament which is supposed to be ground fighting - yet they also want to use rules designed to get you up off the ground as quick as possible. How does that make sense?

    Jesus Christ, I hope Hedgehogy doesn't see this thread. He'll have a field day.
  10. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2011 1:55pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I'd rather be on on top than bottom under most rulesets. Under Judo rules you can camp out and wait for matte (or stand up). You know how hard it is to run an offense from the bottom on a guy who does that. I'd also prefer to be on top in MMA rules. Guard is arguably a minor advantage under BJJ rules.

    Re: daki age. The pickup matte rule in Judo limits offense from your back-- and you have to be better at it in some ways than BJJ. You can't realistically play closed guard and certain kinds of open guard. And, when you go for a sub, it can cause problems unless you defend it in advance (e.g. hook the leg). Getting picked up out of an armbar or triangle ends things in Judo that would continue in BJJ. Getting slammed out, well, that sucks.

    Kosen rules are kind of interesting. They could use those, although it might give too much of an advantage to good tachi waza guys.
    Under KOSEN rules, you can pull guard so unless you got caught very early from an off the grip situation, it wouldn't be that much of an advantage. If the point is judo ne waza focus shiai, I think starting on the ground is fine. Not sure if they allow standing guard passes, if they don't, that would suck, but not be the end of the world.

    A couple of things bothered me. One was the stoppages for no progress. In a way, that is of course perfectly in align with normal Judo rules, on the other hand, if the referees don't allow some pauses in the action to occur, there will be a lot of restarts, which kind of negates the whole ne waza focus of the event. With good refereeing, I can see it working OK.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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