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  1. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2014 10:32am


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    heavy muscle frame good for wrestling/grappling

    it states that this two grapplers/wrestlers are 77 kilogram.
    First, they seem heavier , and second aren't this guys too beef cake? They look like body builders.. since when it is an advantage to be so muscular?
    https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/...25&oe=54B2C291
  2. sweats is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2014 8:45pm


     Style: Shotokan & BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Muscularity itself is not an advantage, but strength certainly is. Grappling is a complex interplay of skill and athleticism.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Bullshido - No BS MMA mobile app
  3. RynoGreene is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2014 6:23pm


     Style: FMA/SAMBO

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, larger muscles don't exactly indicate strength. Note that many bodybuilders are not as strong as Olympic weightlifters, yet appear more muscular. This is due to training methodology, where a weightlifter is trying to maximize absolute strength and explosive power. A bodybuilder is simply looking to encourage muscle growth and keep low body fat. They aren't exactly the same thing, even though there may be some overlap between the two disciplines.

    With that being said, being stronger is a very helpful. My SAMBO club has a few very strong former wrestlers that are absolute beasts to deal with. Good basics, tons of power and endurance. Ugh.
  4. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2014 2:49am


     Style: Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i don't agree that muscle size has little to do with muscle strength.
    I do agree that there is a difference between individuals (strength).
    To establish whether a big muscle (body builder stile) is weaker than some power lifter's you need to isolate the muscle, the movement.
    Also, those power lifters have huge muscles in there legs, lower backs , necks, etc. They just don't bother too much with "beach muscles".
    If indeed those wrestlers are into strength for grappling, well than their muscles and body type look a lot like a body builder's (natural).
    If this is a trend we need to wait and see. It sure seems like an advantage in technique is not a big issue any more.
  5. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2014 10:51am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    i don't agree that muscle size has little to do with muscle strength.
    I do agree that there is a difference between individuals (strength).
    To establish whether a big muscle (body builder stile) is weaker than some power lifter's you need to isolate the muscle, the movement.
    Also, those power lifters have huge muscles in there legs, lower backs , necks, etc. They just don't bother too much with "beach muscles".
    If indeed those wrestlers are into strength for grappling, well than their muscles and body type look a lot like a body builder's (natural).
    If this is a trend we need to wait and see. It sure seems like an advantage in technique is not a big issue any more.
    body shape and structure have a lot to do with how muscles look as well, not only the type of physical training done (bodybuilding vs power/strength lifting, for example). Genetics is the determinant of that to large degree.

    For example, if you have a long upper arm bone (humerus), then it's tougher to develop a big,round, biceps. Same with pectorals. Some guys have large, shield-like pecs not matter if they lift or not, others (like me) don't, and just can't develop that kind of body-building look to their chest.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. soft touch is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2014 4:03pm


     Style: Goju Ryu/Balintawak Arnis

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    body shape and structure have a lot to do with how muscles look as well, not only the type of physical training done (bodybuilding vs power/strength lifting, for example). Genetics is the determinant of that to large degree.

    For example, if you have a long upper arm bone (humerus), then it's tougher to develop a big,round, biceps. Same with pectorals. Some guys have large, shield-like pecs not matter if they lift or not, others (like me) don't, and just can't develop that kind of body-building look to their chest.
    this is a good point, and I will add that the point where each muscle is connected to a tendon is different for everyone which makes a huge difference to muscle appearance (this is known as 'short' or 'long' muscle insertion, or a few other things) though the jury is still out on whether/how much this affects body mechanics

    for example in the biceps, someone with short insertions will have the lower half of the humerus with pretty much no muscle on it
    as an aside, muscle insertions are also what dictate whether superficial abdominal muscles are symmetrical and their shape etc

    Sent from my GT-I9100
  7. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2014 6:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by soft touch View Post
    this is a good point, and I will add that the point where each muscle is connected to a tendon is different for everyone which makes a huge difference to muscle appearance (this is known as 'short' or 'long' muscle insertion, or a few other things) though the jury is still out on whether/how much this affects body mechanics

    for example in the biceps, someone with short insertions will have the lower half of the humerus with pretty much no muscle on it
    as an aside, muscle insertions are also what dictate whether superficial abdominal muscles are symmetrical and their shape etc

    Sent from my GT-I9100
    Interesting on the abs...I never had anything approaching a six pack despite all the ab work I did plus having at times 4-6% body fat...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/16/2014 7:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Interesting on the abs...I never had anything approaching a six pack despite all the ab work I did plus having at times 4-6% body fat...


    Im thinking your numbers are low.

    5% is really lean.
  9. soft touch is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2014 2:58am


     Style: Goju Ryu/Balintawak Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Interesting on the abs...I never had anything approaching a six pack despite all the ab work I did plus having at times 4-6% body fat...
    yeah it's interesting stuff and can make odd things happen, like the lean guys you see who only have definition on half of the separations of the rectus abdominis (vertically.. so like a 'four pack' I guess), though I'm going to have to suggest that Chen is right; it's possible to not have ab definition at 5%, but that's a very rare thing in my experience
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Im thinking your numbers are low.

    5% is really lean.

    Sent from my GT-I9100
  10. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2014 11:13am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Im thinking your numbers are low.

    5% is really lean.
    No, I had it measured multiple times when I was much younger.

    At 43 years old, when I was still doing 4 -5 days a week of Judo and mountain biking/trail running, I got it checked at 7%...

    3 would have been when I cut weight to 132 pounds (not healthy, and I did have to lose muscle mass too), 4-6 when I was competing in the old -65 kg division.

    Of course, the caliper method isn't exact, but that's what I got.

    I had definition in my abs, especially in my obliques, however, never had the whole six-pack thing going on.

    Both my boys do, though, at 9 and 11 years old...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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