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  1. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2011 7:30pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    With a proper training programme and good beginner management you can minimise spazzing. Spazzing mainly becomes a problem when beginners are just inserted into a normal class and there is no introductory programme for beginners where they are all brought on together.
  2. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2011 9:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a huge heavy guy, and often I have the advantage (as some of the other guys here have said) of being able to fold a beginner up without necessarily causing too much pain, or wrenching submissions on too quickly, etc. This has been mainly due to my size, and somewhat less to do with previous grappling experience.

    When I'm rolling with my betters (by far the larger sample in this equation) I already know that I don't learn anything by simply crushing someone with my weight. This fact in addition to the (the guys at my gym are better than me so they can stay on top easier) fact actually leads to me spending the majority of my time on my back, which probably means I spend more time training defensively than offensively (which actually works out pretty well for my level of development).
  3. johnwaynesmom is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2011 9:30pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The white belt classes at the school where I train were just changed because of noob spazzing. The black belt who runs my school was getting emails from people who were quitting because they were getting crushed in free rolling and so ended up not wanting to train jiu jitsu. It wasn't a ton of people, but it was enough that he decided that for the white belt classes they would do positional wrestling only until they had 3 stripes on their white belt, at which point they could jump into the blue belt and up classes. I think this is a pretty good compromise - the noobs have a clearly defined goal such as escaping side control or the back or whatever, and they still get to go "live". I know the argument on the other side is that people pay for jiu jitsu because they want to wrestle, they want to have fun and test themselves, and I get it, but if people are leaving the school because people can't be cool about it then I understand the decision. A lot of Gracie schools are super strict about not letting white belts free roll until they get a LOT of experience because of this stuff. I remember when I was starting out, I had no clue what the heck I was doing and probably wouldn't have minded having the structure of simple positional wrestling for the first six months or whatever. As an experienced blue, at this point I don't care if the people I roll with are flipping out or not, as I will either let them exhaust themselves and capitalize on their mistakes or just tap if they're sitting on my neck or whatever. But I think it matters more for people who are just getting started.
  4. 100xobm is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2011 11:37pm


     Style: BJJ, formerly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a BJJ white, fresh from two years of judo. Imagine how I feel. I know enough to think technically and go relaxed, but still, my ground game is difficult when some 100kg (Metric, learn it fuckers) asshole is trying to choke me from my guard. I can survive, and win, but it's not fucking comfortable.

    I just chill out. I usually roll back into guard. I hate other no stripe white belts because they just try and give me gi rash.
  5. tao.jonez is offline
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    Ninja Fruit

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2011 9:49am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    With a proper training programme and good beginner management you can minimise spazzing. Spazzing mainly becomes a problem when beginners are just inserted into a normal class and there is no introductory programme for beginners where they are all brought on together.
    This is my point. Without a higher ranking belt instructing them, how would a new student know to relax and focus on technique? I think the noob mentality is that bjj/judo/etc. are competitive sports, and the objective of rolling is to win. It's like a pickup game of hoops - sure it's fun, but you still play to win.

    I wish every white belt in the world would read and take WhiteSharks post to heart, though.
    "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln



  6. PDA is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2011 10:41am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can somebody define "Spazzing" please.

    May sound silly my asking but ive only trained in one place and everybody trys to kill each other when we roll.

    Is this spazzing?

    The teacher often shouts at people for trying to use strength rather than tecnique and people rarely get injured.
  7. tao.jonez is offline
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    Ninja Fruit

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2011 10:46am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes - spazzing is using sheer strength to grapple, while throwing technique out the window.

    If you're grunting and straining, you're spazzing 9/10 times.

    Here's a video example - watch the dude in the red belt - he's trying to overcome technique with pure athleticism. Notice that he's yanking, jerking, pulling, and essentially making things worse for himself every step of the way. He thinks he's grappling... that's a spaz.

    Last edited by tao.jonez; 4/12/2011 10:53am at . Reason: add video and comments
    "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln



  8. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2011 10:47am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PDA View Post
    Can somebody define "Spazzing" please.

    May sound silly my asking but ive only trained in one place and everybody trys to kill each other when we roll.

    Is this spazzing?

    The teacher often shouts at people for trying to use strength rather than tecnique and people rarely get injured.
    If you have no idea what you are doing, but you are doing it as hard and fast as you can, then you're spazzing.
  9. PDA is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2011 10:50am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks Kin I understand now.

    So to go as hard and fast as you can to get a position or control the person but then hold back on cranking the sub ect... is not spazziing.
  10. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2011 10:52am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you know what you're doing, then you're not spazzing, generally speaking. You can still be rolling with too much intensity for the circumstances without it being considered spazzing.
    A lot of wrestlers don't spazz, but go WAY to hard for drilling in class.
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