Going too hard or easy on a newbie?

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 4/11/2011 2:43pm

It was just boxing sparring. I did a tourney with no shin guards before and know how damaging bare shin kicks can be. I always wear shins when sparring with kicks, wearing the thickest shinguards that don't break and stay on. I have huge calves for my size and very dense legs.

**Neo Sigma** · Posted On: 4/11/2011 9:24pm

I did a tourney with no shin guards before and know how damaging bare shin kicks can be

I believe my coach's exact words on this subject were- "The first time you get hit hard with an unpadded leg kick, it feels worse than when you first realized Santa doesn't exist."

Anyway. I didn't get to watch both videos, but you're doing the philly shell(I think that's it) defense a lot in the first one. From my experience when I was first starting to spar, that was actually really frustrating and kind of made me feel like the people I was working with were just screwing around. Could have been just me. But mostly I feel like sparring with people who are totally green should be more about showing how to use the techniques they've learned properly, and not "neener neener, you can't hit me". I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but that's what it can feel like from the other end.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 4/12/2011 1:14pm

Neo, thanks for the criticism. I was kinda thinking that too while I was doing it. The mitigating factor is that I suck at the shoulder roll and get punched a lot anyways. lolz.

Fortunately when I did the tourney I was usually the guy kicking. Despite that, my feet look like this:

That was a few days after the tourney, it was much much worse and bigger right after the tourney. (BTW I hardly ever bruise!)

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 4/12/2011 1:51pm

When Whiteshark kicks people without shinguards their limbs explode like it's some kind of kungfu action movie, so he has a real thing for shinguards now.

Starting with shinguards is definitely preferred from the perspective of this noob. Every time I've been nailed by an unpadded shin it's been enough to stop me and make me take a break. Start padded, work up to unpadded is the way our MT works.

**SifuJason** · Posted On: 4/12/2011 2:24pm

The only other thing I can suggest is to deliberately open yourself up on occasion, to help train the noob to see that and capitalize on it. Drop your hands after a punch or something (ie do a common mistake people make, not something super-dumb or rare/exotic) and get them to react properly. Yah, you get hit, but you enjoy that, right?

**matthias.** · Posted On: 4/13/2011 6:35pm

As a beginner myself (so sorry if i'm out of line posting here) i think you're doing very good. I just wanted to talk about the pressure on the receiving end of someone like you. So maybe you can understand him better.

I don't mind getting pressured or getting hit when i spar with someone with a higher skill level if i'm getting a vibe that he's relaxed and not trying to knock my head off. In my gym there's this one dude and when i spar with him as soon as i'm able to hit (lucky punch ftw) him he gives me the death glare and just goes full throttle. And you can really sense it in him that's it's not sparring to learn me stuff and that's really crap. But if you give off a relaxed vibe (like you did) i don't mind getting pressured or getting hit in the face even if it's hard.

I you know what i'm saying and yeah the leave openingsthingy too.

**tao.jonez** · Posted On: 4/14/2011 9:02am

Originally Posted by matthias.

In my gym there's this one dude and when i spar with him as soon as i'm able to hit (lucky punch ftw) him he gives me the death glare and just goes full throttle. And you can really sense it in him that's it's not sparring to learn me stuff and that's really crap.

That dude is an asshole.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 4/14/2011 11:12am

Yeah there is no room for that in a gym that fosters beginners.

**clav** · Posted On: 4/14/2011 1:25pm

Originally Posted by tao.jonez

That dude is an asshole.

I agree but there always seems to be one...

OP, it looked good from another beginner's perspective. You have to get hit to learn. Like matthis said it was relaxed and controlled.

**Obesely** · Posted On: 4/15/2011 12:27pm

That was a wonderful pace. Truly.

@Matthias: That's absolute horseshit, man. Whiteshark is right; there's no room for such an asshole in your gym. I'd bet good money he's nowhere near one of the 'best' at your gym, as as a result decides to wail on the less experienced to stoke his own ego, rather than focus on actually getting better. **** that.

When I spar with beginners, I make a point of making sure to keep it as natural as possible. That is to say, I don't see the point in taking them through what's essentially a rougher contact drill. That being said, I punch without agression (with respect not only to power, but also pace), and the focus is to ensure that A) they're side on and have an appropriate guard and B) they're reasonably speedy at reverting back to said guard after throwing a punch, and/or keeping one hand up while the other is punching

The reason I do this is because this is because the stance and guard is the first thing we show every single beginner, as is the concept of keeping your hands up.

I lightly pressure them with the occasional jab. This is to get them used to the punch coming at them. This is also designed only to hit their guard, for the most part (or getting them to catch it, if they're familiar with that)). It keeps going until they actually start firing back. In keeping with my above 'rules', I won't explicitly counter a punch I can see/am fairly sure is coming, but just follow up with a punch to where there hand *should* be were they returning it. Same with where their jab hand should be before they throw the straight in a 1-2.

Ocassionally, I throw a bodyshot or two to where there guard *should* be, as opposed to actually opening them up on purpose with my own punches. If it's there, it's there. If it isn't, they'll learn. I generally don't throw hooks if it's their first or second ever spar as I'd rather their hands rest in the right place than have them worry about those movements until they've maybe practiced it in a contact drill.

I make sure not to be intimidating, and make sure to face them with a reasonably textbook stance, and not Philly Shell or anything like that. They're there to learn (aren't we all?), and we were all beginners once, after all. Ego can go **** itself.

TL;DR Aim to imrpove their comfort and establish the importance of keeping your guard up and having a reasonable stance. Punish big/silly mistakes with jabs and/or crosses and only use body shots to check that their stance is *reasonable*.

EDIT: If they're just spazzing out and throwing the old haymakers, I'll either dodge *everything*, try to contain them with some light jabs... and if they're still being stubborn and only getting angrier, I'll throw a good counter.

On that note, I always cringe when I get unnaturally great feedback from my jab (i.e they lunged into it nose first with a big step-in that nobody would've expected). That's a lot more damage dealt than I would have wanted to do :(