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  1. Vince Tortelli is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 5:37pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Getting rid of all the softcocks who seem to infest Aikido dojos the world over.

    Introduce some kind of minimum sign up requirements like:
    Be able to do more than 20 press ups
    Be able to talk to a girl about something she actually wants to talk about
    Laugh at offensive jokes
    Be able to tell one good dirty joke
    Have at least 2 funny sex anecdotes
    Have at least 4 funny drunken antics anecdotes

    That would be a pretty good start.
    I know a fair number of BJJ players, and even some judoka, who wouldn't survive a roster cut based on that list, and you want to apply it to akido?

    Just come out and say how you really feel, man, I'll start.

    "What do you get when you have 50 akidoka at the bottom of the ocean?"
    " A good start."
  2. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 5:46pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe that's what misogi is for, washes the weak downstream
  3. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 5:48pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    --
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    Conclusion 1: Many Aikidoka exist who are competent at ukemi.

    1.1: Many Aikido schools train with overly compliant drilling and/or minimum resistance
    1.1.1: The philosophy of 'Ai-Ki' (Harmony-Commitment); [embracing not resisting] pervades the entire organization
    1.1.2: Aikido grading syllabus features an Aesthetic criteria, judging technical prowess based on the natural harmony and beauty of the movement.
    1.1.3: The Syllabus contains dance-like Aesthetic movements that require repetitive drilling to achieve consistency to a gradeable standard.
    1.2: Compliant drilling accomodates extra ukemi practice.
    1.2.1: Being eager to co-operate with a throw attempt results in more breakfalling opportunities than resisting throws and/or takedown attempts.
    1.2.1.1: Co-operative partners spend more time throwing and being thrown than resisting throws.
    1.2.1.2: More time being thrown means more breakfalls.

    Conclusion 2: Aikido masters may soon face unemployment.

    2.1: Aikido currently has limited appeal to the Modern Martial Artist.
    2.1.1: Effective Training is clearly evident in combat sports, BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo, etc..
    2.1.2: None of the MMA Champions in any weight class in the UFC have ever claimed Aikido as the secret to their success. (with the exception of Silva with his toungue in cheek reference to Seagal's 'Aikido kick')
    2.2: There are no significant amount of Aikidoka emerging with any success in Professional MMA
    2.2.1: Professional MMA fighting results are a reasonable tool to gauge some degree of a Martial Art's effectiveness, popularity, and widespread availability of quality training available in Combat sports.

    Conclusion 3: If you're not going to do Judo, you should at least study Ukemi.

    3.1: The possibility of being thrown onto your back and/or head in MMA or 'the str33t' is significant enough to prepare yourself for with some type of training.
    3.1.1: The difference between expert-level Ukemi and basic-level Ukemi just might make the difference between a recoverable injury and paraplegia in an extreme situation.
    3.2: Practicing MMA fighters are well-equipped to improve their ukemi with little extra training
    3.2.1: Modern MMA gyms are primarily concerned with physical assault tactics, stressing the importance of agility, flexibility, and reflex
    3.2.2: Takedowns and groundfighting represent a significant component of a rounded MMA game.
    3.2.3 Competitive MMA techniques require a minimum standard of Physical Athletic ability
    3.3: Ukemi primarily concerns itself with flexibility, agility, and reflex
    3.4: Aikido may have a financial future in modern MMA by evolving into a more complete ukemi system, but devoid of any 'Aikinage' so to speak
    3.4.1: Despite little combat applicability for Aikinage, the Ukemi of a competent Aikidoka is sufficient to instruct breakfalling techniques to unfamiliar fighters.
    3.4.1.1: Although Aikido reputedly has a 'steep' learning curve (this issue is contentious) Aikido beginners are throwing each other to the mat and learning to breakfall properly within their first couple of lessons, and this training continues right through the senior ranks.
    3.4.1.2: In Aikido training, breakfalling drills often form part of the warmup in addition to breakfalling used in technical drills.

    Final Conclusion: Ex (or current) Aikidoka (or Judoka) training in MMA have an opportunity to improve the Ukemi in their camp by offering Ukemi specific classes, and furthermore this requires little effort and promises worthy reward.
  4. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 6:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DAY hacked Colin's account, or so it seems.
  5. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 6:04pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

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    I just beat the internet
  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 6:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli View Post
    I know a fair number of BJJ players, and even some judoka, who wouldn't survive a roster cut based on that list, and you want to apply it to akido?

    Just come out and say how you really feel, man, I'll start.

    "What do you get when you have 50 akidoka at the bottom of the ocean?"
    " A good start."
    Maybe my experience is tainted by associating too much with sport Judoka.

    I used to run a university club and we had all sorts and yeh a good portion wouldn't have survived the cut. However, their departing wouldn't have been much of a loss to the club and we would still have had a decent membership.

    You apply this to an average Aikido club and you'll have no one left in the room.

    That's a big part of the problem, too many pussies in Aikido.

    What do we say, so often, are the two things needed to make Aikido decent - effective training methodology and a delivery system.

    Your average Aikijoker is the reason these two things are never going to go mainstream for Aikido. They can't physically, emotionally and mentally cope with the training methodology that would be required fo it to approach effectivness, re: sparring. The same problem stops them cross training in arts that could provide a delivery system combined with their deep desire to overcome their vast inadequacies without any actual effort means they buy into the whole bs about being too deadly etc...

    I went to a couple of sessions of all the other JMAs on campus as a little fact finding mission. Aikido was filled entirely with scrawny pansies, asian girls and a few tubby white chicks. The Jujitsu clubs were filled with the British equivalent of band and AV club members. The membership is a good 80% of the reason those martial arts as represented on campus, stink.

    Fix the membership and the training methodology and delivery system issues will resolve themselves.
  7. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 6:10pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe aikido would be more popular if all the dojos focused on Stephen Seagal/Anderson Silva face kicks.
  8. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 6:21pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zendokan View Post
    If you want to 'save' Aikido and Hapkido, start a school where the minimum requierement is that students should have a Judo Shodan (or the equivalent in other grappling arts) before they can start to study Aikido.
    I'd also add that I don't think this is a terrible idea, either - but it's definitely a different vision than what I had in mind.
  9. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 6:27pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The trouble is colin, an akidoka could do endless sessions of ukemi, walk out of the dojo on a winters day, slip, put their hand out and snap their wrist or shoulder, because they it wasn't part of the plan, ukemi, like everything, needs to be alive.

    There is another kind of aikidoka that do fair better, they train in a compliant but rough and hard manner, and acquire injuries, such clubs are rare, and I've only met a few guys that do it, and not with the regular class. These guys handle themselves ok, not because they have great delivery system, or because they train properly alive, but during the course of training they are used to being hit, and dont get phased by it. but most folks dont want that experience, or, they would have done something else. But thats where the success stories come from I think, guys that like it rough, fnar.
  10. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2011 6:45pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    --
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    The trouble is colin, a professional fighter could do endless sessions of ukemi, walk out of the dojo on a winters day, slip, put their hand out and snap their wrist or shoulder, because they it wasn't part of the plan, ukemi, like everything, needs to be alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    The trouble is colin, a professional writer could do endless sessions of typewriting, walk out of the studio on a winters day, slip, put their hand out and snap their wrist or shoulder, because they it wasn't part of the plan, typewriting, like everything, needs to be alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    The trouble is colin, a Native Indonesian could do endless sessions of haggling, walk out of the dojo on a winters day, slip, put their hand out and snap their wrist or shoulder, because they couldn't find a bargain, shopping, like everything, needs to be alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    The trouble is colin, an Orthodox Jew could do endless sessions of Torah Study, walk out of the dojo on a winters day, slip, put their hand out and snap their neck, because they convinced themselves that g-d would punish them, Torah Study, like everything, needs to be alive.
    Yoj - Typically I like your cynical style of posting, and it is generally formidable enough to dispense with half-witted trolls, but you're going to have to mount a more serious argument addressing a few of my premises if you want your opinion to have an impact on this argument.
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