How we can save Aikido: An honest opinion.

**DCS** · Posted On: 4/15/2011 10:01am

@ Colin,

I can't asess your current breakfalling level (or your teaching skills). I hope you are not thinking it being higher than what is in reality because thats the path that lead to avoidable accidents and injuries.

@ Judoka_uk,

You haven't heard me talking....

**Colin** · Posted On: 4/15/2011 10:36am

@ DCS I think I have a pretty realistic assessment of my own current capabilities (six weeks of serious training 4-5 days a week in some serious rough and tumble with a background in basic **** ukemi, is what I'm basically at.) figure out what that amounts to yourself if you like.

In any case, there's no need for me to teach ukemi at my gym, or anywhere else, since basically every guy I train with is competent due to the component of the beginners course that they run.

I feel pretty confident in my own capacity to fall safely in a variety of situations, but my initial argument wasn't about myself or my ability to teach in any capacity.
The initial argument, and subsequent formal position still represent my views, but I do not make the claim that the 'Aikido' I studied has 'the r34L', or that the justification behind any competancy I have was the Aikido i learned. My actual argument is just theoretical, but it is based on training practices.

Please note that I'm not citing this six week period as my only valuable experience or relevant experience, I am citing this period as my personal testing period of my own competency level.

**BKR** · Posted On: 4/15/2011 1:23pm

Originally Posted by BSONE

yes I go every year.

Im the uke with the red tape on the gi.

Any time I see someone labelled as "shihan" I cringe.

Some nice ukemi there, and interesting movements, some of which looked they might have some practical value. Aikido has some good stuff in it, but as in this video, some of it is kind of fantastical. I'd like to see him work with someone who can really punch/strike. He has nice looking tai sabaki.

Note, I'm not jamming on the "shihan", just giving my honest opinion.

Ben

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 4/15/2011 1:33pm

Forgive me if this has been asked before, and--given the length and number of Aikido threads--it almost certainly has...but is there any footage of this being attempted/used on a noncompliant individual?

I'm aware of the theory behind the compliance: go with the technique or suffer a sprain/fracture/whatever, but has this been shown in a live-training/live-fighting situation?

**DCS** · Posted On: 4/15/2011 1:51pm

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

Forgive me if this has been asked before, and--given the length and number of Aikido threads--it almost certainly has...but is there any footage of this being attempted/used on a noncompliant individual?

By "this" you mean aikido techniques, performed by aikidoka? Can you be more especific?

**BKR** · Posted On: 4/15/2011 2:23pm

I've had aikido techniques done to me and I was being non compliant. That was years ago. They do work, if done correctly.

Ben

**gregaquaman** · Posted On: 4/15/2011 2:28pm

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

Forgive me if this has been asked before, and--given the length and number of Aikido threads--it almost certainly has...but is there any footage of this being attempted/used on a noncompliant individual?

I'm aware of the theory behind the compliance: go with the technique or suffer a sprain/fracture/whatever, but has this been shown in a live-training/live-fighting situation?

You did see the brazil vid earlier in this thread?

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=105607&page=8

**StepInCross** · Posted On: 4/16/2011 6:54am

I've been manhandled by an akidoka before. It was in a history class and we were given group projects of learning about traditional martial arts of different countries. One of the guys presenting said he was a blackbelt in aikido. I figured, I'd see for myself. He told me to put my arm forward and without skipping a beat, the guy put me in VERY deep wristlock even before my arm was hand was raised above waist level. I had to kneel from the pain. I even rolled to get out of it and told him to ease up.

Just an anecdote. Keep in mind that I have no experience whatsoever in grappling. That might explain how he basically pretzel-lized me.

**Colin** · Posted On: 4/16/2011 8:50am

Originally Posted by StepInCross

I've been manhandled by an akidoka before. It was in a history class and we were given group projects of learning about traditional martial arts of different countries. One of the guys presenting said he was a blackbelt in aikido. I figured, I'd see for myself. He told me to put my arm forward and without skipping a beat, the guy put me in VERY deep wristlock even before my arm was hand was raised above waist level. I had to kneel from the pain. I even rolled to get out of it and told him to ease up.

Just an anecdote. Keep in mind that I have no experience whatsoever in grappling. That might explain how he basically pretzel-lized me.

The technique you are describing sounds like some form of Dai-Nikkyo (spelling?) the "second form" of Aikido wristlock. This technique is commonly used by Japanese police while handcuffing, as opposed to the "Third Form" (Sankyo) style (think kimura) of handcuffing used by American Law Enforcement.

Furthermore (this is a little off topic now) my experience with Aikido jointlocks helped me understand Judo and JJ jointlocks better than I might have, if I were a fresh beginner.

**DCS** · Posted On: 4/16/2011 11:06am

Originally Posted by Colin

The technique you are describing sounds like some form of Dai-Nikkyo (spelling?)

Nikyo.

the "second form" of Aikido wristlock. This technique is commonly used by Japanese police while handcuffing, as opposed to the "Third Form" (Sankyo) style (think kimura) of handcuffing used by American Law Enforcement.

Sankyo is nothing like a Kimura.

Sankyo (Tissier):

Sankyo (Roy Dean)

Standing Kimura (Parysian):

Standing Kimura (Grappler's Quest - go to 0:40 mark for the ouch!!!)

On the different handcuffing methods used by japanese and american LEO: Source, citation?