Judo, Aikido ?

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 4/07/2011 2:49pm

I wonder at the back story to the guy he's fighting.

In the judo video you posted, the n00b is light enough and compliant enough to get thrown safely. I imagine that for for Tohei to throw the guy in his video, it would have taken a fairly committed throw. If the guy can't ukemi, (or Tohei doesn't know) he'd have to hedge his bets fairly in that environment.

I had the fortune of fighting a Judo 1st Kyu when I was an Aikido 3rd Kyu. I could ukemi reasonably well, and the difference in skill was such that he could afford to be careful with me.

I bet few people get to experience Judo like I did that day. It was awesome. Like being inside a safe bubble in the middle of a fucking beat-down.

**Colin** · Posted On: 4/07/2011 2:52pm

Originally Posted by Ignorami

I bet few people get to experience Judo like I did that day. It was awesome. Like being inside a safe bubble in the middle of a fucking beat-down.

I contend that you're correct. I submit to you that I am one of that group, having had a similar overall experience with judo, coming from a long Aikido background.

**DCS** · Posted On: 4/07/2011 3:11pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Yeh I remember reading that. There's a lot of leading the mind in Judo without any recourse to Aikido. Good Judo includes leading the mind in just the same way as good Aikido does and for that matter Boxing, Wrestling, BJJ etc... Its a fundamental skill of combat.

Of course, but Riehle also mentions his aikido training as benefitial for both his waza and his understanding of judo.

As ever it comes down to the old arguments of effectiveness of training methodology and delivery system.

Agree.

What immediately struck me about the Tohei video was that it was the first one I've ever seen of a serious Aikidoka sparring with a live uncooperative opponent and he was able to make his Aikido work. However, for most of what he did he could have made his Aikido much more effective and thrown the guy much more if he had a better delivery system. As you can see in the video he looks quite a sea with the actual close range grappling and use of the gi.

I'm with Ignorami. Tohei was put in a very awkard situation. If the reporter were injured, a lot of the work that was made at that time for selling aikido as a "peaceful" martial art would be lost.

I was surprised therefore to see the Judo 2nd dan claim, because that doesn't look at all like the gi control and space control skills of a Judo 2nd dan, to me.

Possibly caused by not doing judo in about 20 years, and a teenage nidan in late 30's Japan was not equivalent to a contemporary one.

**Gidi** · Posted On: 4/07/2011 3:45pm

Originally Posted by Ignorami

I had the fortune of fighting a Judo 1st Kyu when I was an Aikido 3rd Kyu. I could ukemi reasonably well, and the difference in skill was such that he could afford to be careful with me.

I bet few people get to experience Judo like I did that day. It was awesome. Like being inside a safe bubble in the middle of a fucking beat-down.

I wonder if there's an amusing story to this? that you'd like to share with the group.
Or was that it?

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 4/07/2011 4:05pm

Sadly, that's pretty much it. It was after class and I told him something along the lines of "judo is bullshit - if you let your opponent get that close, you've already fucked up" (I was quite a young man)

He challenged, and when I asked what rules he said approx "you do whatever you want, I won't hurt you".

A 5 minute ass-whooping ensued. Both of us are nice people, and as we settled into it and realised how hopelessly outclassed i was, It became an opportunity for me to really let go.

I was lashing out, getting up, lashing out again. It was brilliant

**Permalost** · Posted On: 4/07/2011 4:33pm

Originally Posted by DCS

I'm with Ignorami. Tohei was put in a very awkard situation. If the reporter were injured, a lot of the work that was made at that time for selling aikido as a "peaceful" martial art would be lost.

Also the judo vid he was comparing it to wasn't quite the same scenario: the judo one was more or less two guys fighting, while the aikido one seemed to be "okay, you come at me and I'll defend myself", which is a bit different (and goofy in its own way). Judo guy went on the offensive and caught some guys that had no idea how to not get thrown.