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  1. GhostBushid0 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2011 8:06pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo/Bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo, Aikido ?

    ok before folks pull out their flamethrowers and kill me read what im writing first. Ok so for the past few months i have been doing judo and bjj but i have always had an interest in aikido but never took the leap due to the fact of is it bs or is it effective. Now my judo is a very cool opertunity for me but its expensive and i have to travel far to practice once a month. my main question is how close or far apart are judo and aikido and what are pros and cons for both thanx!
  2. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2011 8:14pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JUDO

    it's widely available and cheap too.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  3. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2011 10:29pm


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Having never done Aikido I can only give my impressions of the difference from a Judo based perspective. Both Judo and Aikido share some concepts about using timing, positioning, and leverage to off balance and throw someone but make different presumptions. The starting assumption in Judo is basically that you're starting from a grip and then attempt to apply techniques, while in Aikido the basic assumption is that you're being attacked from striking distance or someone starts an attack by gripping your wrist/lapel. As a result, with Judo throws there are almost always at least two points of contact, while many Aikido throws will either have only one point of contact or use a joint lock, which is dangerous. Judo also has a well developed set of newaza techniques, which Aikido doesn't. I feel this gives Judo a strong training advantage since you can practice at full speed and power against a resisting opponent without too high a chance of a serious injury, although accidents do happen.

    If you really want to do Aikido that badly, and access to Judo is to expensive and time consuming for you, then just go with Aikido. You don't need to come here to get justification to do something you really want to do.

    One thing I really like about Judo; you can find plenty of examples of the throws working outside of a demonstration setting.
  4. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/01/2011 12:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    JUDO

    it's widely available and cheap too.
    Glad to see you are well, and Good Hunting!

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2011 1:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostBushid0 View Post
    ok before folks pull out their flamethrowers and kill me read what im writing first. Ok so for the past few months i have been doing judo and bjj but i have always had an interest in aikido but never took the leap due to the fact of is it bs or is it effective. Now my judo is a very cool opertunity for me but its expensive and i have to travel far to practice once a month. my main question is how close or far apart are judo and aikido and what are pros and cons for both thanx!
    There is very little Aikido that you'll find in the long run to be effective. (Most of the guys I know who can be effective with aikido also do judo) but IF you can find a Nishio Aikido school, chances are you may find something effective, the founder keeps other arts and their attacks in mind when he started the school.

    I've done a little Nishio style and it's about the best you're going to find when it comes to aikido.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  6. Oonjuk is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/01/2011 2:00am


     Style: Taekkyon/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As one of those guys who does both Judo and Aikido, I would have to recommend you to do Judo first, and then if you are still interested, take Aikido. I love Aikido and I started off martial art with it, but it is more of a supplement martial art.

    Good description of the technical difference between Aikido and Judo:
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Guess View Post
    Having never done Aikido I can only give my impressions of the difference from a Judo based perspective. Both Judo and Aikido share some concepts about using timing, positioning, and leverage to off balance and throw someone but make different presumptions. The starting assumption in Judo is basically that you're starting from a grip and then attempt to apply techniques, while in Aikido the basic assumption is that you're being attacked from striking distance or someone starts an attack by gripping your wrist/lapel. As a result, with Judo throws there are almost always at least two points of contact, while many Aikido throws will either have only one point of contact or use a joint lock, which is dangerous. Judo also has a well developed set of newaza techniques, which Aikido doesn't. I feel this gives Judo a strong training advantage since you can practice at full speed and power against a resisting opponent without too high a chance of a serious injury, although accidents do happen.
    I think most people have stated over and over the many benefits of Judo and disadvantages of Aikido, so I wanted to just point out pros of Aikido according to my own experience.
    Pros of Aikido
    -Aikido lacks resistance training but because you are doing compliance training, you are pretty much guaranteed to be thrown by nage (thrower) as an uke (attacker) and you get to do lot more break falls, so your break falls improve. For example, within 10 minutes of Judo Randori, you have been thrown maybe 3 times because you threw your partner more than you got thrown. Within same time slot, you been thrown at least 12 times and you threw the other guy 12 times in Aikido drill because it's a compliance training. Also, it improves your rolls for similar reasons.
    -Both Judo and Aikido share some concepts about using timing, positioning, and leverage to off balance and throw someone, but as Just Guess pointed out, Aikido relies on one point of contact or joint lock, which make Aikido techniques highly likely to completely fail if not executed properly to the finest detail. So you get to be more conscious and careful about timing, positioning, and leverage to off balance (with Judo, if first attempt fails, I can always try to use that failed attempt as a set up for trying different throw next).
    -My sensei always says, "disregard mystified descriptions of concept of aiki involving magical ki." Her best way to explain concept of aiki without all the ki bullshit was: aiki is about making contact with your uke and feeling his/her balance and intentions. If you feel his balance is weak to the right help him fall on the right side. If you feel that your uke is trying push you to a certain direction, don't fight it, help him go to the direction he wants but make sure you are out of his way and he is on the floor by the end of it. I think being conscious of concept of aiki described by my Aikido sensei helped me a lot in Judo randori, where I am always trying to feel for my partner's balance to do a counter throw. (ex: my friend was coming in with a his right foot to do a Kouchi Gari, so I quickly step my right foot around and forward and did a Osoto Gari by helping his right foot to keep on going forward).

    I hope I wrote pros of Aikido without any bullshit, but as you can see, all these benefits are there only if you already train in other systems like Judo or BJJ, which is why I call Aikido an supplement martial art. However, I would recommend that you should try out both Judo and Aikido yourself, and decide for yourself which you like better.
  7. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2011 2:19am

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I had to distill my opinion down, I'd simply say, you'll feel cooler in Aikido, and you'll get more martial benefit from Judo. Both will help you get/stay in shape, and both will help your break-fall ability.
  8. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2011 2:22am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Oonjuk View Post
    As one of those guys who does both Judo and Aikido, I would have to recommend you to do Judo first, and then if you are still interested, take Aikido. I love Aikido and I started off martial art with it, but it is more of a supplement martial art.

    Good description of the technical difference between Aikido and Judo:


    I think most people have stated over and over the many benefits of Judo and disadvantages of Aikido, so I wanted to just point out pros of Aikido according to my own experience.
    Pros of Aikido
    -Aikido lacks resistance training but because you are doing compliance training, you are pretty much guaranteed to be thrown by nage (thrower) as an uke (attacker) and you get to do lot more break falls, so your break falls improve. For example, within 10 minutes of Judo Randori, you have been thrown maybe 3 times because you threw your partner more than you got thrown. Within same time slot, you been thrown at least 12 times and you threw the other guy 12 times in Aikido drill because it's a compliance training. Also, it improves your rolls for similar reasons.
    -Both Judo and Aikido share some concepts about using timing, positioning, and leverage to off balance and throw someone, but as Just Guess pointed out, Aikido relies on one point of contact or joint lock, which make Aikido techniques highly likely to completely fail if not executed properly to the finest detail. So you get to be more conscious and careful about timing, positioning, and leverage to off balance (with Judo, if first attempt fails, I can always try to use that failed attempt as a set up for trying different throw next).
    -My sensei always says, "disregard mystified descriptions of concept of aiki involving magical ki." Her best way to explain concept of aiki without all the ki bullshit was: aiki is about making contact with your uke and feeling his/her balance and intentions. If you feel his balance is weak to the right help him fall on the right side. If you feel that your uke is trying push you to a certain direction, don't fight it, help him go to the direction he wants but make sure you are out of his way and he is on the floor by the end of it. I think being conscious of concept of aiki described by my Aikido sensei helped me a lot in Judo randori, where I am always trying to feel for my partner's balance to do a counter throw. (ex: my friend was coming in with a his right foot to do a Kouchi Gari, so I quickly step my right foot around and forward and did a Osoto Gari by helping his right foot to keep on going forward).

    I hope I wrote pros of Aikido without any bullshit, but as you can see, all these benefits are there only if you already train in other systems like Judo or BJJ, which is why I call Aikido an supplement martial art. However, I would recommend that you should try out both Judo and Aikido yourself, and decide for yourself which you like better.
    Good points! & I agree, these arts work well together. There are definite benefits to doing two or even three of these arts, they complement well.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  9. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2011 9:07am


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Disclaimer: I have one season of Aikido, vs about a dozen in judo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oonjuk View Post
    -Aikido lacks resistance training but because you are doing compliance training, you are pretty much guaranteed to be thrown by nage (thrower) as an uke (attacker) and you get to do lot more break falls, so your break falls improve.
    In my very limited experience, the aikido ukemi is always circular, and they don't spend much time if any learning how to take a hard fall. Unless your judo practice is strictly randori, you will get to do plenty of ukemi practice - in our club, we practice it specifically each class, plus you take a bunch of falls practicing throws, plus during randori we often go throw for throw. Finally if you learn kata you will spend a lot of time hitting the mat.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    If I had to distill my opinion down, I'd simply say, you'll feel cooler in Aikido, and you'll get more martial benefit from Judo. Both will help you get/stay in shape, and both will help your break-fall ability.
    I found the techniques in aikido very interesting, but the vibe at my club was very crunchy-granola. I suspect that most of the people there would be shocked, shocked to learn that the techniques we were practicing could be used to hurt people. We're all just "blending", don't you know. I don't think I ever broke much of a sweat during aikido. There's a lot of variance from club to club, of course - I know some clubs practice hard. But a lot of them are like mine was. So from the perspective of just getting in shape, judo wins hands-down for me.

    Mostly, I just prefer the competitive nature of judo, the set of rules that lets you play the other guy hard with minimal risk of injury. That's completely missing from aikido.
  10. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2011 9:13am


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    IF you can find a Nishio Aikido school, chances are you may find something effective.. I've done a little Nishio style and it's about the best you're going to find when it comes to aikido.
    I wish I'd discovered Nishio Aikido a lot earlier in my training.

    Almost as much as I wish I spent longer training Judo as a kid.

    To the OP - do both.


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
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