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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2011 11:40am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The funny thing is you read the article and do not understand why it was written. Funnier still, is that you are regurgitating the arguments in "goofy" speak.
  2. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2011 11:52am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chemsoldier View Post
    It isnt just that it puts "emphasis" on high kicks. That makes it sound like the instructor harps on it to the students or that is just something pushed in the manual of TKD or something. Structure is extremely powerful and when the competition structure gives huge points for a kick to the head, half as many points for kicks and punches to the body and bupkiss for hand techniques to the head and kicks below the waste (I think those are banned actually). That is closer to "actively discourages" anything other than kicks above the waist.
    Sure, there's a point difference between the head and body, but more importantly, kicks to the legs are not allowed in TKD. The art of low kicking can only be properly developed when you're free to kick the legs in sparring.
  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2011 1:08pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan88 View Post
    I know you mean well pepper, but I was referring to something mentioned in the post:
    "That is, TKD teaches a strategy that launches kicks at the opponent *above* the level of the waist. The feeling of many is that this leaves the TKD exponent in a position of weak balance that can easily be taken advantage of by even unskilled opponents." Again, that's not the point. That is the point of learning a style and becoming good at it, just to hone a skill for it's own sake.
    Maybe you should read the entire original post; it's rather interesting. As for your comment on my personal state; your imagination will never be a good substitute for the facts.
    It's not that TKD sucks; McDojos and unscrupulous money-grubbing instructors suck. There is nothing to bash when it comes to a school with a bunch of competitors who are focused on Nationals. So they can't wrestle and a boxer can't kick, BJJ doesn't do chun chain punches and a ninja could death-touch all of them, but it doesn't mean that they aren't skilled, focused, and training hard and let's not forget that if tkd has made it to the Olympics then it's not going anywhere and it will be here after we move on to something else. There are just a lot of instructors who want to make a living as the patriarch of their own school. The WTF TKD guys have realized that if they only cater to training competitors, the they won't be able to make any better a living than a guy who owns a boxing gym (unless they are in a big metropolitan area with wealthy parents) because the training will scare the $ away. So they water down the TKD, throw in extra belts with other forms, half a hapkido cirriculum (but no certification and a cirriculum not recognized outside that instructors fiefdom), and they find a way to be all things to all people. We all know that these people generally aren't interested in conditioning or hard effort, just a social club, and learn enough to get themselves hurt.
    I can't bash TKD, but I have to bash a school somewhere out there who was training al Queda; I saw it this morning on CNN. They showed a seized terrorist video of the guys in a training camp kicking paddles with WTF/Olympic techniques. That either means TKD sucks or it's the most awesome and deadly art in any cave anywhere.
    I think people who stand up on soap boxes and preach as if they have some new epiphany suck. I think people who patronize those around them and come onto a forum arguing a point that nobody really bothered to discuss and ended with a pop and a fizzle because it wasn't worth discussing suck.

    I've got a second degree blackbelt in ITF and WTF TKD. There are many valid TKD practitioners on this site. Feel free not to speak for us.
  4. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2011 1:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TBH, the second time I broke my nose a guy with a strong background in TKD did it with a ridiculous jump spinning kick. So, even though it was literally the only decent hit he got all night on me, I feel like I should never talk **** about TKD after literally being sent back about 10 feet crashing into a wall with blood spurting from my face. I had already done karate for 13ish years at the time and honestly had never seen anything like that kick (nor have I since) and just froze watching it, like, "Holy ****!"

    I realize this does nothing to dispel the idea that TKD is all about acrobatic kicks, but I will never forget that hit. I couldn't believe I wasn't knocked out.
    Last edited by maofas; 12/30/2011 1:21pm at . Reason: grammar, accuracy
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2011 1:21pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yet, that isn't what the article said at all. I'm thinking people are skimming the article.

    The article discusses why people perceive TKD sucks. It doesn't say that TKD does always suck.
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2011 1:24pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Yet, that isn't what the article said at all. I'm thinking people are skimming the article.

    The article discusses why people perceive TKD sucks. It doesn't say that TKD does always suck.
    ^^^^This^^^^
  7. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2011 1:31pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Yet, that isn't what the article said at all. I'm thinking people are skimming the article.

    The article discusses why people perceive TKD sucks. It doesn't say that TKD does always suck.
    Guilty of skimming, I'm surfing/multi-tasking/making train arrangements for my friend, drinking on my day off to prepare myself for cleaning the apt, and it was a good mini-story! I never suggested, however, it said TKD is always bad, just, anytime the quality of TKD comes up, I start having flashbacks of that hit. I'm traumatized!
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2011 1:36pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm more referring to the soap box butt-hurt idiots not you. It is actually a well argued point. He addresses everything we hear or read about the problems non-practioners see in TKD.
  9. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 9:31am


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan88 View Post
    It's not that TKD sucks; McDojos and unscrupulous money-grubbing instructors suck. There is nothing to bash when it comes to a school with a bunch of competitors who are focused on Nationals. So they can't wrestle and a boxer can't kick, BJJ doesn't do chun chain punches and a ninja could death-touch all of them, but it doesn't mean that they aren't skilled, focused, and training hard and let's not forget that if tkd has made it to the Olympics then it's not going anywhere and it will be here after we move on to something else. There are just a lot of instructors who want to make a living as the patriarch of their own school. The WTF TKD guys have realized that if they only cater to training competitors, the they won't be able to make any better a living than a guy who owns a boxing gym (unless they are in a big metropolitan area with wealthy parents) because the training will scare the $ away. So they water down the TKD, throw in extra belts with other forms, half a hapkido cirriculum (but no certification and a cirriculum not recognized outside that instructors fiefdom), and they find a way to be all things to all people. We all know that these people generally aren't interested in conditioning or hard effort, just a social club, and learn enough to get themselves hurt.
    Irrelevant. Irrelevant. Irrelevant. Makes my point. (and) Irrelevant.

    My point in writing the original "article" low those many years ago (for a different forum) was to explain why the general banner of "TKD" gets so much hate'n on. It's because of the PERCEPTION of it. It doesn't matter how wonderful TKD may be in Korea (for instance) because the people bashing TKD don't live in Korea and don't see/interact with Korean trained TKD practitioners.

    If TKD proponents want to stop the bashing then they have to either change the perceptions or convince the bashers that what they see as "shortcomings" are acceptable (good luck with that).

    I originally wrote this "article" (in that other forum) as a reply. A new poster had popped up and questioned why TKD gets bashed so much on that forum. He went on to list all the reasons that he thought TKD was great. These included, improved self confidence, exercise, etc. The forumites were unconvinced and opined that self confidence and exercise could easily be achieved with any other martial art which did comply with their view of "effective martial arts" or even any non-martial exercise activity, which, in turn, led the the opinion that TKD is a martially-inspired "dance." You can well guess that original poster then and the TKD detractors never did see eye-to-eye. :)

    Nevertheless, what I have listed above are what many (most?) TKD detractors consider the shortcomings of TKD (in their experience). If you choose to, think of as a Marketing problem. Marketing is all about creating new perceptions or changing existing ones (so is Propaganda, come to think of it). You can either change the product (New Coke?) or make a better marketing campaign (New Coke?) ;)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  10. macs gym is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2012 12:45am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: shinki ryu jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When you have 4year old blackbelts running around tournaments being mentored by Orange belts that kind of lowers your credability .when your blackbelt adults spar like other schools green belts .when red necks at the bar start laughing because you just said you got a black belt tkd. Tkd is a very good martial art but what I being taught in the states is usualy a joke .
    Oh and the face shields are a little silly
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