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  1. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2011 1:37pm

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     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like the end quote, 'I take full responsibility for making the decision to break the rules and try to cheat the system'. I especially like the the word "try".

    He takes full responsibility - after the Event - 'cos he was found out to have been totally dishonest and sought an advantage by cheating. Inexcusable and Ego-driven.

    Cycling? Apart from Tommy Simpson who actually died on Mount Ventoux having taken Amphetamines and Brandy etc. dehydration and exhaustion would also have been factors. It's also clear that others took Speed in that era just to get through Le Tour. That's why his fellow riders did not condemn him.

    More recently, it's been EPO and this has been admitted by Bjarne Riis, who beat Miguel Indurain preventing a Record 6th Le Tour victory. EPO has also helped kill other young cyclists owing to effect it has on Blood thickening - according to Reports. Otherwise the soigneur Wille De Voet comes to Mind - his car was stopped by Gendarmes and he had EVERYTHING.

    Silva? Bad Man. A Reputation Lost.
  2. cufaol is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2011 4:57am


     Style: Boxing/Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    no it doesnt. dying from a combination of heatstroke, dehydration and meth is NOT the fucking same as dying from using steroids, you imbecile. **** off with your misinformation. if you dont even know the difference between fucking steroids and speed get the hell out of this thread.
    Of course those are not the same. My original point, however, is still the same: if a mma fighter should die (I hope this will not happen) and his death is somehow connected to roids, then the issue will be taken a lot more seriously I suspect.

    The difference between speed, roids and EPO is perfectly clear to me Alex. No need to go bonkers over this.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2011 5:35am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm going to disagree. Boxing has had a few roid scandals and nothing happened. WWF has had a few alleged roid deaths and nothing happened. There is an initial uproar and no one cares. Hell, even the perjury trials, in baseball, plus subsequent testing and banning in sports has done absolutely nothing. People still get popped and people still use roids.
  4. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2011 9:08am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    I'm going to disagree. Boxing has had a few roid scandals and nothing happened. WWF has had a few alleged roid deaths and nothing happened. There is an initial uproar and no one cares. Hell, even the perjury trials, in baseball, plus subsequent testing and banning in sports has done absolutely nothing. People still get popped and people still use roids.
    ^^^this. People care for the few moments they can spare, before they go back to their often crappy lives, and re-fixate on the watching of the sport, which is their distraction from s3rious things.

    Add drama to their 'release' or 'escape' and it's minimized, when possible.

    EDIT: and WWF/WCW/WWE has had scores of early deaths, due to the effects of roids. Nothing happened. People want freaks out there.
  5. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2011 1:29pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    I'm going to disagree. Boxing has had a few roid scandals and nothing happened. WWF has had a few alleged roid deaths and nothing happened. There is an initial uproar and no one cares. Hell, even the perjury trials, in baseball, plus subsequent testing and banning in sports has done absolutely nothing. People still get popped and people still use roids.
    My recollection is that James Toney was stripped of a victory and banned. My memory could be faulty but that's what I seem to recall.

    There are others who were either suspected or kindly treated but really it only benefits those in the Heavyweight division for obvious reasons.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2011 2:31pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A ban of one person and no active effort to stop it, in context to this comment:
    if a mma fighter should die (I hope this will not happen) and his death is somehow connected to roids, then the issue will be taken a lot more seriously I suspect.
    is why I disagree with his assertion.


    There are others who were either suspected or kindly treated but really it only benefits those in the Heavyweight division for obvious reasons.
    Hunh? Are you still talking steroids? If so, this is wrong.
  7. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2011 5:57pm

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    I don't disagree.

    My earlier post was to have included Sugar Ray and Tommy Hearns' rematch when Hearns accused Leonard of taking steroids and he meant it honestly. I thought Ray was less than wholly convincing. I edited it out at that time - perhaps I should have left it in??

    Similarly, Golota had marked acne scarring all over his Back when he bashed Bowe in the Balls (and had a Temper problem). It was suspected by many yet everyone preferred to set it aside as Bowe got the verdict both times. Even so, any decent Governing Body would have done something but the WBC,WBA,IBF,WBO et al? No. Never likely, especially when Fees were at stake.

    Mosley I'm pretty sure was at it as well.

    With boxers, it's the sheer difficulty of making weight that seems to suggest that 'Roid would not happen. Yet it clearly has; it's just not clear to what extent.

    WWF etc. I always assumed they were using Steriods - if only because of their exaggerated physiques.

    Er, thassit.
  8. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2011 3:52am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well the cyclist who died was a precedent. hence all the regulations etc put in place after. of course it would have little effect NOW, because what else can they do? its already illegal.

    roids dont neccessarily make you big Eddie. what they can do is make you be able to work like a fucking demon and wake up the next day feeling fine, which is a big advantage in any sport.

    this is the question i always pose to people who rag on athletes taking roids-

    lets say you are at the top of your sport, and are on the verge of making it big. nike, adidas etc are all hovering, waiting for you to get that big win that will make or break it for you. you have huge natural talent and have never touched roids before, but even with all your talent some of the people you train with just always seem to have more gas, can train harder and longer and seem to make more gains. one day, you catch one of them injecting roids in his ass after training. he tells you that the reason he is doing better than you are is cos of this.

    So what do you do? take the roids, you increase the chance of winning that big payday. sponsors will flock to you, womens juices will flow, men will want to be you. your family, your kids will never want for anything.

    Or, you can not take the drug that is making the people you train with that tiny bit better than you, and lose. the payday doesnt come, you are an also ran, you go back to working the counter at K-mart. your wife leaves you for an asshole who sells mercs.

    its easy for people to throw stones when they will NEVER be in that kind of situation. 99% of people lack the drive and commitment that top athletes have, which is why they are there. this is where the people who say "i would never do the drugs!" and actually mean what they say come from. and their opinion, really, doesnt fucking matter. most sane, logical people would say yes. albeit quietly.

    which then makes you wonder how many of those top athletes would say no?
  9. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2011 8:25am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alex

    Yeah, fair points well made.

    I'm reminded that Greg LeMond (who I thought was a fantastic cyclist) was the most likely English-speaking winner of Le Tour de France (which he did) would be a prime candidate to go for the very magic 5 wins. Anyway, he was interviewed in latter years and said that those with the most natural talent, emerged early and were good from the start. He realised that something had changed when those with unexceptional careers suddenly started going past him.

    The other interesting thing about pro-cycling is "The Day Without" - this occurs in the multi-Stage races, like the national tours that run for 2-3 weeks. Apparently you wake up one day with no energy and have to grit you teeth and use the Group to minimise your Time losses. I saw this happen to LeMond in either his 2nd or 3rd TdF win. He was just Spent and had to hang on. Curiously (or damningly) this doesn't see to happen to many others these days - and it's not just the Rehydration packs they infuse.

    It took a while to realise that in Cycling, that most pros take stimulants not to WIN necessarily but to Survive. Paul Kimmage wrote about it in his book and he was ostracised by the pro-riders for "spitting in the soup" from which they all supped however his talent was always less than Roche, Kelly and others.

    I suppose things have moved on with Rasmussen being sacked whilst leading the Tour; Floyd Landis has been disqualified from his TdF Victory cos he took illegal Stimulants and lied about it. Pantani?

    Seoul Olympics 1988?

    My own naivete surprises me sometimes. I though Sherk was a Steroid monster and I think he got found out.

    I'll stop here.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2011 10:54am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
    I don't disagree.

    My earlier post was to have included Sugar Ray and Tommy Hearns' rematch when Hearns accused Leonard of taking steroids and he meant it honestly. I thought Ray was less than wholly convincing. I edited it out at that time - perhaps I should have left it in??

    Similarly, Golota had marked acne scarring all over his Back when he bashed Bowe in the Balls (and had a Temper problem). It was suspected by many yet everyone preferred to set it aside as Bowe got the verdict both times. Even so, any decent Governing Body would have done something but the WBC,WBA,IBF,WBO et al? No. Never likely, especially when Fees were at stake.

    Mosley I'm pretty sure was at it as well.

    With boxers, it's the sheer difficulty of making weight that seems to suggest that 'Roid would not happen. Yet it clearly has; it's just not clear to what extent.

    WWF etc. I always assumed they were using Steriods - if only because of their exaggerated physiques.

    Er, thassit.
    I honestly am not grasping what you are saying. You don't disagree with my assertion or you don't disagree with what he said?

    A death, concerning roids, won't make people freak out any worse than normal. There will be a quick aberration and things will go right back to normal like boxing, Pro-wrestling, Cycling and every other sport.

    You have to read what ALex said because, you still have to work to make roids work. Do you see all of the small guys, who maintain there weight class, that have been accused of using? That's why I said your comment made no sense and you were wrong. People that don't understand roids think it is only about size and it isn't. It is also about recovery, working harder, injury repair, and too many other things to name.
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