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  1. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2011 3:35pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a new Bullshido.net review of the documentary DVD: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...06&pagenumber=
  2. doofaloofa is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2011 7:43am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    funnily enough, one of the lads that does the san soo cam to training excitedly saying how he'd seen the sherlock holmes film, and sherlock had used san soo!
    next time i see him i will have to teach him a new word... bartitsu
    goes to show though, you can't sing a song that's never been sung
  3. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2011 12:59pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your friend might also be interested in this Bartitsu.org interview with Richard Ryan, the "Sherlock Holmes" fight choreographer.
  4. doofaloofa is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2011 2:54pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the clip of the fight scene is pretty cool.
    the part where he goes through each strike, and its consiquenses sounds like it comes out of a san soo play book. just needs a few groin kicks and the odd eye gouge
    is smack considered a perfomance enhancing drug in Conan Doyles' baritsu?
  5. ty5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 5:43pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On a slightly pedantic note, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote much earlier on in the Sherlock Holmes series that Holmes was a Boxer and the Bartitsu reference was not until about 1903 and even then he spelt Bartitsu wrong.

    I have always felt that boxing fitted the whole character of holmes better and the Bartitsu angle had been overplayed since then.

    Have at you sir!



    [/pedant]
  6. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 5:51pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by ty5 View Post
    On a slightly pedantic note, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote much earlier on in the Sherlock Holmes series that Holmes was a Boxer and the Bartitsu reference was not until about 1903 and even then he spelt Bartitsu wrong.

    I have always felt that boxing fitted the whole character of holmes better and the Bartitsu angle had been overplayed since then.

    Have at you sir!



    [/pedant]
    On an even more pedantic note; as well as being a skilled boxer, Holmes referred to himself as being "a bit of a singlestick expert". Given that Bartitsu actually included cross-training between jujitsu, boxing and stick fighting, it *can* be argued that he was exercising "baritsu" almost every time he took on a villain physically, which actually happened more often in the original stories than many people realize.

    In historical rather than fictional terms, though, it's very likely that Doyle just cribbed the "baritsu,or Japanese wrestling" reference from a London Times newspaper report on a Bartitsu demo., which likewise misspelled the name as "baritsu" and was titled "Japanese Wrestling at the Tivoli".
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 6:00pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ty5 View Post
    On a slightly pedantic note, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote much earlier on in the Sherlock Holmes series that Holmes was a Boxer and the Bartitsu reference was not until about 1903 and even then he spelt Bartitsu wrong.
    [/pedant]
    On a very pedantic note: learn to read threads before you post.

    If you had read post #3, #13, or #14 before necroing this thread, you'd know absolutely nothing you posted added anything new to this discussion.

    Now, sir, kindly post something useful or just

    :GTFO:
  8. ty5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2011 5:12am


     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    On an even more pedantic note; as well as being a skilled boxer, Holmes referred to himself as being "a bit of a singlestick expert". Given that Bartitsu actually included cross-training between jujitsu, boxing and stick fighting, it *can* be argued that he was exercising "baritsu" almost every time he took on a villain physically, which actually happened more often in the original stories than many people realize.
    It could be argued, but as boxing and single stick where common in Victorian London if the reference to Bartitsu was not in "The Adventure of the Empty House" then just boxing and single stick fighting alone in the stories would still make sense.

    Not that it really matters either way of course, just that the Bartitsu referernce seems an off hand addition to the stories rather than an intricate part.

    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    In historical rather than fictional terms, though, it's very likely that Doyle just cribbed the "baritsu,or Japanese wrestling" reference from a London Times newspaper report on a Bartitsu demo., which likewise misspelled the name as "baritsu" and was titled "Japanese Wrestling at the Tivoli".
    Yes totally agree, do you know if any references in the press to Bartitsu from the period still exist?
  9. ty5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2011 5:16am


     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    On a very pedantic note: learn to read threads before you post.

    If you had read post #3, #13, or #14 before necroing this thread, you'd know absolutely nothing you posted added anything new to this discussion.

    Now, sir, kindly post something useful or just

    :GTFO:
    I know, this is a failure of mine, I have failed in this case for sure.
  10. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2011 11:37am

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by ty5 View Post
    It could be argued, but as boxing and single stick where common in Victorian London if the reference to Bartitsu was not in "The Adventure of the Empty House" then just boxing and single stick fighting alone in the stories would still make sense.

    Not that it really matters either way of course, just that the Bartitsu referernce seems an off hand addition to the stories rather than an intricate part.
    I think you mean "integral part", and I'd say that's a matter of perspective; the Bartitsu reference came at a key moment in the Sherlock Holmes canon. By the time he wrote "The Final Problem", Doyle was sick of writing about Holmes and at least ostensibly wanted to kill him off (note that Sherlock Holmes was literally the most popular fictional character in the world at that point). When pressure from fans and $$$ offers from publishers eventually persuaded Doyle to revive the character and series, he needed a deus ex machina way to explain how he survived the fight with Moriarty - hence, "baritsu" was the means by which Holmes simultaneously defeated his arch-enemy and saved his own life.

    More significantly from the martial arts POV, the cryptic "baritsu" reference was actually the clue that spurred modern research into Bartitsu.

    Yes totally agree, do you know if any references in the press to Bartitsu from the period still exist?
    Since 2002 the Bartitsu Society has tracked down a huge number of press references to Bartitsu from circa 1898-1902 - detailed reports on exhibitions, illustrated technical articles by E.W. Barton-Wright and others, interviews, transcripts of lectures, references in autobiographies, etc. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu and http://www.bartitsu.org/ , or just watch the "Lost Martial Art of Sherlock Holmes" documentary ...
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