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  1. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/23/2011 11:57am

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Weight lifting for wrestling

    My son just started weight training (nautilus training to be more precise). What machines should he hit that would help his conditioning for wrestling?
    Jeremy M. Talbott

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  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/23/2011 12:03pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps better suited to the PT forum.

    Key questions:

    How old is your son?

    What's his body type i.e tall and thing, average and heavy set, small and thin etc...?

    I would imagine the first piece of advice would be to can the nautilus and switch to free weights and if he's really young to stick to a bodyweight type programme. I strated using freeweights at 13/14 not sure what the proper age to start is, though, I would imagine that anything below that is probably regarded as a little suspect and requires lots of qualified supervision.
  3. Lindz is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2011 12:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No machines, Barbells
    Snatch, Clean and jerk
    Squat
    Deadlift
  4. mrh80 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2011 5:04pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good bodyweight options include hill sprints, jump rope, hindu push ups and hindu squats and everyones favourites burpees. If you have access to a kettlebell and someone who can teach him properly swings and snatches are awesome.

    What does his wrestling coach suggest?
  5. DBlue is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/24/2011 7:15am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Weightlifting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah. Can the machines. In resistance training, machines are really fantastic at isolating the number of muscles and joints used, sometimes even down to one muscle. As humans, we respond better and get stronger faster and stronger overall the more muscles and joints we use in resistance training. Free weights are best for this. Machines have dealt a major blow to fitness since their widespread introduction. Nautilus is the Skynet of fitness, but free weights are the John Conner.

    If he's younger, go with the bodyweight exercises mentioned above.
    If he's older, barbell training. Any beginner program with the big compound lifts, squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press, will work. You can add in the olympic lifts, snatches, cleans, and such but these are usually complicated enough to require coaching to learn.
    Stronglifts and Starting Strength are both fantastic programs in this vein. My personal preference is Starting Strength, but the majority consensus on these boards seems to be Stronglifts. If you need to learn the lifts, pick up the Starting Strength book.

    Now, noone has said why the older. It's not because barbells are too dangerous. Far from it. An 8 year old can safely do all the major lifts. Done correctly, weight lifting is one of the safest methods of health and fitness. It's not because it's going to stunt growth. If that were the case, all the farmer's kids who had to lift heavy stuff since they were little would all be midgets. There are way too many big strong farmer's kids for that to be true.

    It's simply because we aren't set up to get really strong until our bodies finish growing and the right hormones have started to kick in. Barbell training is optimized to get you really strong, really quick. Until the conditions are right, bodyweight can be almost as good of a strength developer and has a couple side benefits over barbell training. Once conditions are right, go with barbell. If the kid was just interested in competitive weight lifting, my advice would be lifting as soon as he's disciplined enough to keep himself to a schedule.

    So, the next question is, when will conditions be right for barbell? All kids develop at different rates so this is something of a shot in the dark. Definitely by 18, probably by 16, and maybe by 14.

    Good luck! I hope your kid enjoys the rasslin'.
  6. Ashkuff is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2011 7:58pm


     Style: Boxer, Grappler, Fencer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A'right, I see it like this.
    MAKE SURE HE HAS STRONG QUADS.
    I got into wrestling, ignored training my quads, and nearly destroyed my kneecap because my quads couldn't support my patella correctly. I'm okay now, but it'd be best if your son could avoid that kinda hassle altogether. Squats, definitely. Maybe some kettle bell lunges. A little work on the quad extensions wouldn't hurt either. Sure, people like to rag on using machines, but it really doesn't hurt as a supplement. Besides protecting his knees, all that'll also help him develop a good shoot. Also make sure that he counter-trains his hams.

    Also, I say to strengthen his lower back. Ideally, you shouldn't overuse your lower back while wrestling because, like most heavy lifting, you should lift with your legs. However, weird stuff happens and sometimes you find yourself using your back more than you ought to. For those times, it's good to know your back can take it. So I'd suggest dead lifts. I'm not really bug into deads, but I roll with some real solid wrestlers who swear by em.

    --- Ashkuff | http://ashkuff.com | How to venture out of “armchair” scholarship, and into action? One anthropologist tackles occultism, violence, and more! He gets spooked and roughed up a lot.
  7. Ashkuff is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2011 8:03pm


     Style: Boxer, Grappler, Fencer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Clean and jerk? Really? I'm not disagreeing or anything, I was just considering getting into them myself if they're really as useful as people make em out to be. Like, what are your thoughts? What do they work? Etc?

    --- Ashkuff | http://ashkuff.com | How to venture out of “armchair” scholarship, and into action? One anthropologist tackles occultism, violence, and more! He gets spooked and roughed up a lot.
  8. smartangel is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2011 10:11pm


     Style: wingchunkickboxingfencing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    No machines, Barbells
    Snatch, Clean and jerk
    Squat
    Deadlift
    ¸

    Are you serious those lift are hard to do for beginner (snatch, clean and jerk) and they don't have any eccentric part. And don't says that machine are totally useless because is not true and most of them are not only for isolation. Plz don't do what people says here because there are too much blind with starting strength and strong lift and thats make me sick . They have many others methods that you can use like the 120/80 and the stato method.
  9. Ashkuff is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2011 1:46am


     Style: Boxer, Grappler, Fencer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by smartangel View Post
    ¸

    Are you serious those lift are hard to do for beginner (snatch, clean and jerk) and they don't have any eccentric part. And don't says that machine are totally useless because is not true and most of them are not only for isolation. Plz don't do what people says here because there are too much blind with starting strength and strong lift and thats make me sick . They have many others methods that you can use like the 120/80 and the stato method.
    In order for anybody to get good at an exercise, they have to begin somewhere, don't they? So is it really the "lifts" themselves that're too much for a beginner, or the prospect of lifting "too much weight?" I think it's assumed knowledge that beginners should start light and focus on mastering the exercise, before adding a lot of weight. After all, any exercise can be too dangerous if you overdo it, no?

    --- Ashkuff | http://ashkuff.com | How to venture out of “armchair” scholarship, and into action? One anthropologist tackles occultism, violence, and more! He gets spooked and roughed up a lot.
  10. Lindz is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2011 1:54am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Totally serious about squat and deadlift. Clean and jerk and snatch with coaching, should take a few months to get decent at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashkuff View Post
    Clean and jerk? Really? I'm not disagreeing or anything, I was just considering getting into them myself if they're really as useful as people make em out to be. Like, what are your thoughts? What do they work? Etc?
    damn near everything. Get qualified coaching before attempting tho
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