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  1. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 10:43am

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    Quote Originally Posted by peeowee View Post
    served with a self-righteous attitude of "you don't belong on the road".
    I am going to leave your "laugh at the video" comment alone, as you continue to mix arguments, attempting to leverage justification from one for the other.

    You don't belong "on the road" unless you are going at least the posted speed limit, otherwise you are impeding traffic and creating an unsafe driving atmosphere.

    You also cannot complain about bike lanes, lack of bike lanes, automobile drivers not respecting bike lanes, as you have in other posts, and then make a "you don't belong on the road" comment.

    If bikes should be allowed on roads for cars, cars should be allowed on bike lanes. If one is not permitted, neither should the other. Get this concept clear in your head and you will likely be less frustrated while peddling to Chun practice.

    EDIT:
    pushups for hungryjoe
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post

    You don't belong "on the road" unless you are going at least the posted speed limit, otherwise you are impeding traffic and creating an unsafe driving atmosphere.
    This is the problem. They go to fast for the sidewalk and to slow for the street. There needs to be a happy medium and unless cars stop working it probably isn't going to happen.
  3. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 11:40am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post

    You don't belong "on the road" unless you are going at least the posted speed limit, otherwise you are impeding traffic and creating an unsafe driving atmosphere.

    You also cannot complain about bike lanes, lack of bike lanes, automobile drivers not respecting bike lanes, as you have in other posts, and then make a "you don't belong on the road" comment.

    If bikes should be allowed on roads for cars, cars should be allowed on bike lanes. If one is not permitted, neither should the other.
    In my state this is legally incorrect. I can get the statutes if need be but...

    It is illegal in urban areas to ride on the sidewalk.
    When there is no bike lane, bikes may take a whole lane if the cyclist deems it the safest thing to do. (prudence applies of course)
    It is preferred one rides in the right-most lane, but as circumstances dictate (left turns or wide one way streets) the cyclist may use other lanes as appropriate.


    Most motorists are not aware of these types of laws and that is why the massholes started their thing.

    If you really think "at least the posted speed limit" or the driving in the bike lane parts are valid we can go there but i suspect you were being facetious.
  4. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 11:59am

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    In my state this is legally incorrect. I can get the statutes if need be but...

    It is illegal in urban areas to ride on the sidewalk.
    Correct.
    Which is why I stated in an earlier posting bikeriders often wish to be viewed as moving vehicles -or- pedestrians, depending upon whichever circumstances favor them.

    When there is no bike lane, bikes may take a whole lane if the cyclist deems it the safest thing to do. (prudence applies of course)
    It is preferred one rides in the right-most lane, but as circumstances dictate (left turns or wide one way streets) the cyclist may use other lanes as appropriate.
    I don't have a problem with bikes on the street provided they are keeping at a rate consistent with the flow of traffic which is at least equal to the posted speed limit. If they are not, most states view this as impeding traffic which is blocking the normal flow of traffic which will potentially cause unsafe traffic conditions.

    This is no different than a motor vehicle. There are, of course, exceptions, however it generally defers to weather conditions and/or large trucks hauling freight, necessitating "safe driving conditions", not bicycles and their operators not being able to peddle faster.

    Peddling 5-15 MPH under the speed limit, in the middle of the lane is not the safest nor most prudent thing to do.

    Most motorists are not aware of these types of laws and that is why the massholes started their thing.
    No, they are consciously impeding traffic to make a political point, with the bulk of them wanting everyone to be "green". They are breaking the law and in many jurisdictions, doing so with the full support of the PD, as required of them by elected officials for purely political reasons. The couple of SFPD cops I talked to years ago thought this whole thing was a big pile of bullshit.

    If you really think "at least the posted speed limit" or the driving in the bike lane parts are valid we can go there but i suspect you were being facetious.
    The "bike lanes" was facetious, as Peeowee was expecting bikes be treated more fairly than automobiles. The "at least the posted speed limit" was not facetious and I explained above.
  5. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 12:01pm

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    Are we going to debate the term "limit"?

    edit: Also how is a slow moving bike any different than a slow moving motorized vehicle, say a truck or tractor?
  6. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 12:06pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Are we going to debate the term "limit"?
    Not if you are willing to accept that speed limits are created using the "reasonable man" framework.
    The reasonable man, in the case of creating speed limits is in a motor vehicle and not on a bike.

    edit: Also how is a slow moving bike any different than a slow moving motorized vehicle, say a truck or tractor?
    As I stated in my post, the law acknowledges the truck or tractor mandating a lower speed to necessitate "safe and prudent driving conditions" to prevent a wreck.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 12:09pm

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    edit: Also how is a slow moving bike any different than a slow moving motorized vehicle, say a truck or tractor?
    Visibility. Limited access to roads. Rarely driven at high traffic periods. Size. MOTORIZED. Also, as everyone forgets there are minimum speed limits on certain roads. I have seen slow moving trucks ticketed for being driven at unsafe time periods.

    While I understand what you are debating bikes are not slow moving tractors. Yes, people get pissed when they are in the road. The drivers also have to obey the rules like everyone.
  8. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 12:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Visibility. Limited access to roads. Rarely driven at high traffic periods. Size. MOTORIZED. Also, as everyone forgets there are minimum speed limits on certain roads. I have seen slow moving trucks ticketed for being driven at unsafe time periods.

    While I understand what you are debating bikes are not slow moving tractors. Yes, people get pissed when they are in the road. The drivers also have to obey the rules like everyone.
    I don't think we need to concern ourselves with a bicyclist, traveling on a wet road, having his brakes go out and plowing into another driver.
  9. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 12:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    Not if you are willing to accept that speed limits are created using the "reasonable man" framework.
    The reasonable man, in the case of creating speed limits is in a motor vehicle and not on a bike.
    I am not actually.
    A limit is just that, a ceiling not a minimum as you imply.
    Hawaii has a zero-tolerance speed limit.
    I can get a ticket for doing 26 in a 25, on my bike for that matter.
    30mph over is a felony.
    I think speed limit is pretty clear in meaning over here.

    As I stated in my post, the law acknowledges the truck or tractor mandating a lower speed to necessitate "safe and prudent driving conditions" to prevent a wreck.
    I can fly past a tractor on my bike, that the tractor or maintenance vehicle as it may be can only go so fast is my point, just like a bike.

    A slow bike has the legal right to the road just as the slow moving tractor.
    Do i have to quote the damn massholes? "We are traffic."
  10. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2011 12:26pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    I don't think we need to concern ourselves with a bicyclist, traveling on a wet road, having his brakes go out and plowing into another driver.
    I do know two people that have killed pedestrians while on a bike.
    Both were during organized races however.
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