WC long pole

[Kouch]

so iv finally finished the wing chun long pole form and drills. and i cant even explain how much it has helped with my stance/footwork/and structure.

for some reference, dragon pole training is mainly used to help tie the upper and lower body together,releasing power, and rooting for balance. of coarse it can be used as a weapon but...who carries around a 9' pole? haha

im curious on if any other CMA's practice weapons forms more as tools for empty hand developement? and what kind of changes you've seen your fighting ability go up to.

enlighten me :)

[Southpaw]

Sure. That isn't uncommon in CMA's...especially given the fact that the actual weapons are (largely) not relevant anymore...but there is a desire to find a reason to keep them in the system for historical or training purposes.

However, this is also why most CMA systems don't really work that well in application. The hours you spend playing with your pole could have had a more meaningful pay-off if you spent those hours punching someone or preventing yourself from getting punched.

It all comes down to realistic and efficient training methods. Have fun training and do what you like...but don't kid yourself into believing that sitting in low-horse for an hour is a good use of your time (assuming of course you are a normal, full-time job having person).

[Permalost]

As far as CMA weapons are concerned, I liked the garden hoe. We used this oversized type with a big steel head. It's funny to watch since the beginning has a little acting part where you scrape the ground, look up at the sun and wipe your head. That was probably the heaviest weapon I learned. I also have a set of butterfly swords that's made out of very thick steel, a lot heavier than the ones most people had. Doing the form was a good forearm workout, since the choy li fut butterfly swords form is a very, very long form.

Another weapon oddity that I feel I got a slight benefit from was the fan. In the fan form, you open and close the fan, and when you do it right, it makes a loud popping sound (sometimes when teaching the kids class I would scare them by opening the fan when they weren't paying attention; everyone had fun with that). Anyway, the snapping open of the fan would use a kinda subtle whipping motion, with the arm mostly extended throughout the motion, and this was similar to certain short empty hand strikes.

I used to do a bunch of different CMA weapon forms and kinda saw the benefits, but when I learned about Indian clubs I got way more into that after I stopped going to my kung fu school. I like that the way it trains the body in a symmetric way (even when doing the asymmetrical exercises since they rotate between sides) and that they're actually a weight, while many CMA weapons weigh very little. I have a 3lb wooden set, and a metal set that ends like a barbell (it has a socket to stack weight plates). I use the wooden set for warming up and more diverse exercises, and the heavy set for a few specific exercises (to get an idea of the difference, you could look up meel on youtube, then look up zurkhaneh and see how different sizes are used differently).

[It is Fake]

Okay to be fair many CMA weapons have heft people and instructors choose to buy the cheaper wushu metal. I had a combat steel 20lb Kwando. We had access to white waxood 3-5lb Staffs. We ordered combat steel swords, un-sharpened, that were 1 to 3 lbs.

Granted, I mostly agree with what southpaw stated. I actually have two completely metal fans.

[Kouch]

Sure. That isn't uncommon in CMA's...especially given the fact that the actual weapons are (largely) not relevant anymore...but there is a desire to find a reason to keep them in the system for historical or training purposes.

However, this is also why most CMA systems don't really work that well in application. The hours you spend playing with your pole could have had a more meaningful pay-off if you spent those hours punching someone or preventing yourself from getting punched.

It all comes down to realistic and efficient training methods. Have fun training and do what you like...but don't kid yourself into believing that sitting in low-horse for an hour is a good use of your time ).

Honestly i never was interested in weapons because i felt them to be outdated so i found better use of my time just doin empty hand training
But the pole and butterfly knives are a requirement for advancement ha. Thanx fellas

[Permalost]

Okay to be fair many CMA weapons have heft people and instructors choose to buy the cheaper wushu metal. I had a combat steel 20lb Kwando. We had access to white waxood 3-5lb Staffs. We ordered combat steel swords, un-sharpened, that were 1 to 3 lbs.

Granted, I mostly agree with what southpaw stated. I actually have two completely metal fans.

There's definitely heavier CMA weapons out there, and the wushu ones are extremely light. In fact I'd kinda like to get a set of melon hammers for clubwork. In comparison though, my heavy Indian club set is currently at 6-7 lbs a piece, a weight that's just unreasonable for pretty much any one handed weapon.

[Tom Kagan]

...dragon pole training ...

Quick guess: William Cheung school, right?

...who carries around a 9' pole? haha

House painters, window washers, tree doctors, oarsmen, utility linemen, fire fighters, pole vaulters ...

... and what kind of changes you've seen your fighting ability go up to.

enlighten me :)

I found the pre-pole exercise: "Jin Choi" ("battle punch") helped make my punches stronger, though I've seen very very few people outside my classmates and their students practice it the way my teacher taught. (I'm also too banged up and too lazy nowadays to get back into that form, though I intend to change this soon.)

A Biu Kuan, repeated endlessly, helped my accuracy while expressing power (the 5 point cycle more so than the typically seen 3 point cycle). Though frankly, Biu Kwan usually just made my elbows ache.


Southpaw is right. Apparent training paradoxes and indirect methodology abound in CMA. At least the way I was taught it, the methodology of __ng __un seemed much more conscious of this in the manner which the learning progression was laid out by the ancestors. The only logical conclusion I perceived from this was the ancestors specifically set out to invert the progression as some sort of signature and statement of intent ... or they were mischievous crackpots. :-D Regardless it was always clear to me from this that the common folklore of "teaching insurgents quickly to be able to overthrow the Ching" (not from my teacher) was typical bullshit/tall stories for children.

[Kouch]

Quick guess: William Cheung school, right?

actually no. Gary Lam Wing Chun. Wong Shun Leung lineage. what made yuh think Sir William Cheung?

We actually do alot of the Jin Choi. and they will make yuh sore haha!

[Tom Kagan]

actually no. Gary Lam Wing Chun. Wong Shun Leung lineage. what made yuh think Sir William Cheung?

Because in the Yip Man lineage, Cheung was the one who started calling it "dragon pole". Of Yip Man's students, they used the nickname "rat tail pole" or "mouse tail pole" because of the taper. I was not aware that Gary Lam also used "dragon pole".

Using "dragon pole" as the nickname for the __ng __un Kwan doesn't particularly make sense because, unless you have the lineage/influence of JeeShim (which wouldn't make sense given that Wong Shun Long is Gary Lam's sifu), there's no large, dramatic whipping action in the style's Kwan movements.

But who knows? Maybe Gary Lam is murophobic (heh), hangs the poles vertically the school's entrance (religious/cultural reference), or he just thinks "dragon pole" sounds cooler.

[peeowee]

FWIW, I also found that the pole had various beneficial side effects in terms of accuracy, Lat Sau Jig Chun (spelling?) and general stance and forward power.
I also found that the downwards shocking pole movement followed by a stab transferred to long bridge hand to hand work as an entry.


Not to mention strength, but that's probably because I haven't done weights or anything before that.
Now I supplement with light weight clean and press and deadlifts plus some resistance bands, and that in turn transfers right back to the pole.