223605 Bullies, 3826 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 10
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Kouch is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    147

    Posted On:
    3/14/2011 9:47pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    WC long pole

    so iv finally finished the wing chun long pole form and drills. and i cant even explain how much it has helped with my stance/footwork/and structure.

    for some reference, dragon pole training is mainly used to help tie the upper and lower body together,releasing power, and rooting for balance. of coarse it can be used as a weapon but...who carries around a 9' pole? haha

    im curious on if any other CMA's practice weapons forms more as tools for empty hand developement? and what kind of changes you've seen your fighting ability go up to.

    enlighten me :)
  2. Southpaw is offline
    Southpaw's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,907

    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 10:17am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure. That isn't uncommon in CMA's...especially given the fact that the actual weapons are (largely) not relevant anymore...but there is a desire to find a reason to keep them in the system for historical or training purposes.

    However, this is also why most CMA systems don't really work that well in application. The hours you spend playing with your pole could have had a more meaningful pay-off if you spent those hours punching someone or preventing yourself from getting punched.

    It all comes down to realistic and efficient training methods. Have fun training and do what you like...but don't kid yourself into believing that sitting in low-horse for an hour is a good use of your time (assuming of course you are a normal, full-time job having person).
  3. Permalost is online now
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,523

    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 10:36am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as CMA weapons are concerned, I liked the garden hoe. We used this oversized type with a big steel head. It's funny to watch since the beginning has a little acting part where you scrape the ground, look up at the sun and wipe your head. That was probably the heaviest weapon I learned. I also have a set of butterfly swords that's made out of very thick steel, a lot heavier than the ones most people had. Doing the form was a good forearm workout, since the choy li fut butterfly swords form is a very, very long form.

    Another weapon oddity that I feel I got a slight benefit from was the fan. In the fan form, you open and close the fan, and when you do it right, it makes a loud popping sound (sometimes when teaching the kids class I would scare them by opening the fan when they weren't paying attention; everyone had fun with that). Anyway, the snapping open of the fan would use a kinda subtle whipping motion, with the arm mostly extended throughout the motion, and this was similar to certain short empty hand strikes.

    I used to do a bunch of different CMA weapon forms and kinda saw the benefits, but when I learned about Indian clubs I got way more into that after I stopped going to my kung fu school. I like that the way it trains the body in a symmetric way (even when doing the asymmetrical exercises since they rotate between sides) and that they're actually a weight, while many CMA weapons weigh very little. I have a 3lb wooden set, and a metal set that ends like a barbell (it has a socket to stack weight plates). I use the wooden set for warming up and more diverse exercises, and the heavy set for a few specific exercises (to get an idea of the difference, you could look up meel on youtube, then look up zurkhaneh and see how different sizes are used differently).
  4. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,927

    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 10:45am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay to be fair many CMA weapons have heft people and instructors choose to buy the cheaper wushu metal. I had a combat steel 20lb Kwando. We had access to white waxood 3-5lb Staffs. We ordered combat steel swords, un-sharpened, that were 1 to 3 lbs.

    Granted, I mostly agree with what southpaw stated. I actually have two completely metal fans.
  5. Kouch is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    147

    Posted On:
    3/16/2011 1:41pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Sure. That isn't uncommon in CMA's...especially given the fact that the actual weapons are (largely) not relevant anymore...but there is a desire to find a reason to keep them in the system for historical or training purposes.

    However, this is also why most CMA systems don't really work that well in application. The hours you spend playing with your pole could have had a more meaningful pay-off if you spent those hours punching someone or preventing yourself from getting punched.

    It all comes down to realistic and efficient training methods. Have fun training and do what you like...but don't kid yourself into believing that sitting in low-horse for an hour is a good use of your time ).
    Honestly i never was interested in weapons because i felt them to be outdated so i found better use of my time just doin empty hand training
    But the pole and butterfly knives are a requirement for advancement ha. Thanx fellas
  6. Permalost is online now
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,523

    Posted On:
    3/16/2011 1:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Okay to be fair many CMA weapons have heft people and instructors choose to buy the cheaper wushu metal. I had a combat steel 20lb Kwando. We had access to white waxood 3-5lb Staffs. We ordered combat steel swords, un-sharpened, that were 1 to 3 lbs.

    Granted, I mostly agree with what southpaw stated. I actually have two completely metal fans.
    There's definitely heavier CMA weapons out there, and the wushu ones are extremely light. In fact I'd kinda like to get a set of melon hammers for clubwork. In comparison though, my heavy Indian club set is currently at 6-7 lbs a piece, a weight that's just unreasonable for pretty much any one handed weapon.
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    3/16/2011 3:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kouch View Post
    ...dragon pole training ...
    Quick guess: William Cheung school, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kouch View Post
    ...who carries around a 9' pole? haha
    House painters, window washers, tree doctors, oarsmen, utility linemen, fire fighters, pole vaulters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kouch View Post
    ... and what kind of changes you've seen your fighting ability go up to.

    enlighten me :)
    I found the pre-pole exercise: "Jin Choi" ("battle punch") helped make my punches stronger, though I've seen very very few people outside my classmates and their students practice it the way my teacher taught. (I'm also too banged up and too lazy nowadays to get back into that form, though I intend to change this soon.)

    A Biu Kuan, repeated endlessly, helped my accuracy while expressing power (the 5 point cycle more so than the typically seen 3 point cycle). Though frankly, Biu Kwan usually just made my elbows ache.


    Southpaw is right. Apparent training paradoxes and indirect methodology abound in CMA. At least the way I was taught it, the methodology of __ng __un seemed much more conscious of this in the manner which the learning progression was laid out by the ancestors. The only logical conclusion I perceived from this was the ancestors specifically set out to invert the progression as some sort of signature and statement of intent ... or they were mischievous crackpots. :-D Regardless it was always clear to me from this that the common folklore of "teaching insurgents quickly to be able to overthrow the Ching" (not from my teacher) was typical bullshit/tall stories for children.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  8. Kouch is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    147

    Posted On:
    3/17/2011 5:57am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    Quick guess: William Cheung school, right?
    actually no. Gary Lam Wing Chun. Wong Shun Leung lineage. what made yuh think Sir William Cheung?

    We actually do alot of the Jin Choi. and they will make yuh sore haha!
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    3/25/2011 11:07am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kouch View Post
    actually no. Gary Lam Wing Chun. Wong Shun Leung lineage. what made yuh think Sir William Cheung?
    Because in the Yip Man lineage, Cheung was the one who started calling it "dragon pole". Of Yip Man's students, they used the nickname "rat tail pole" or "mouse tail pole" because of the taper. I was not aware that Gary Lam also used "dragon pole".

    Using "dragon pole" as the nickname for the __ng __un Kwan doesn't particularly make sense because, unless you have the lineage/influence of JeeShim (which wouldn't make sense given that Wong Shun Long is Gary Lam's sifu), there's no large, dramatic whipping action in the style's Kwan movements.

    But who knows? Maybe Gary Lam is murophobic (heh), hangs the poles vertically the school's entrance (religious/cultural reference), or he just thinks "dragon pole" sounds cooler.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  10. peeowee is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    66

    Posted On:
    5/07/2011 11:18am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FWIW, I also found that the pole had various beneficial side effects in terms of accuracy, Lat Sau Jig Chun (spelling?) and general stance and forward power.
    I also found that the downwards shocking pole movement followed by a stab transferred to long bridge hand to hand work as an entry.


    Not to mention strength, but that's probably because I haven't done weights or anything before that.
    Now I supplement with light weight clean and press and deadlifts plus some resistance bands, and that in turn transfers right back to the pole.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.